What Should I Do?

[Shaffy]

I know the response form my mom Would be somthing like this: " no no NO Absoutly not.". Heck i woulden't even ask the question because i already know the answer. You should tell him no it's too risky, You could get malled by an animal, A stray bullet may hit you (and most likely kill you), and possibly the hunting buddies may not like you. I'ts the worst idea for a sport (and now i's gonna start sounding like a parent now) it teaches him that killing is a good thing when it's not, he could think that animal abuse is a good, and it's so not.

Well thats my 2 cents.

[Solebomber]

I am just going to agree to disagree with the anti-hunting issue here on this forum. Res Judicata just has to decide for her self based on what she thinks is best for now and in the long term. I hope it works out either way and the boy gets to spend time with his Granpa wether it be hunting or camping or just throwing horse shoes out in the back yard.

[Susan9608]

First of all, any experienced hunter when he hunts an animal will kill in ONE SHOT so there is little, if any, suffering.

Really? And you know this how?

How about this: a study of 80 white-tailed collared deer revealed that of 22 shot, 11 of them went unrecovered by the hunters. 20% of foxes shot have to be shot again before death and 10% manage to escape so they can go off into the wild and bleed to death. About 3 million wounded ducks go unretrieved every year. And in Britian, studies demonstrate that 11% of deer die after being shot 2 or more times and sometimes suffer as long as 15 minutes before dying.

We are not even talking about an experienced hunter in this situation; rather we are talking about a 13-year-old *child* who has never been hunting before. Even if you were correct (which you are not) in saying that an experienced hunter kills in one shot, thus eliminating suffering, how well do you think this novice child will do?

Having an innocent animal suffer even a split second of agony in the name of sportsmanship is way too much, in my opinion.

Edited to Add:

Now there are hunters that do hunt strictly for sport and do not care about the suffering and will shoot the animal anywhere they can to mame it before shooting it. THAT is wrong, but that is NOT the behavior of an experienced hunter that hunts strictly for food and not for sport.

Don't kid yourself. No one (at least, no one in developed, industrialized nations) hunts for food. Sure, some hunters may like to eat what they kill after they kill it, but no one *needs* to hunt food in order to survive. To say that people hunt soley for food, and not for sport, is pure rationalization.

[Coopdog]

When shot by a hunter a deer or rabbit or whatever else is usually dead before he hits the ground. The same is not true for an animal that is euthanized even by a licensed veterinarian.

I have two problems with this statement.

First: I have seen wounded deer limping through my back yard. Get real...most hunters are not expert sharp shooters. And while an animal may drop to the ground immediately, that does not mean they are instantly dead. Most die a terrifying death of shock and pain.

Second: I held my dog's head in my lap while the vet put her down in my living room. It was quick, peaceful and painless for her.

[this_lil_piggy]

There absolutely is not always a way. My grandparents live off of a 700.00 a month retirement. Pay just every day bills out of that and see what is left for food, not to mention the astronomical costs they have for medications, hospitals, and doctors even after insurance does their part. They do plant gardens, buy generic, avoid high priced prepared foods etc. My grandmother has diabetes that limits her food options. She has heart disease. She has suffered so many heart attacks, heart caths, heart stints, and by pass surgeries that her doctors say her heart is just worn out. The lower portion barely beats hard enough to pump blood to the top, the heart tissue is thin, and her arteries are all too thin. Her blood clots up so terribly that she's on two of the strongest blood thinners available at the highest doses. Because of the clotting problem combined with the drugs she takes she is also restricted from eating a very large list of vegetables......basically she has to avoid everything green, ecspecially leafy greens. Combine these things with what she has to avoid due to diabetes, and she has few options....most of her diet is and has to be, meat. The stuff you buy in the grocery store is crapt (the way animals are killed in slaughter houses for store bought meat---now that is cruel!) and she tries to avoid it to prolong her life as long as possible, she is only 65 years young. Deer is a much leaner option. My grandfather does take a deer a year off his property, but he also takes injured/sick ones when possible. This year he has two deer that he prepped and sent to be processed that were hit by cars on the road. One was still alive but seriously injured when he found it, another was already dead but had been recently hit (was still warm).
He absolutely does hunt strictly for food purposes, and avoids hunting when a "euthanization" situation arises (an injured deer that needs put out of its misery). Every "hunter" may not be like him, but to say that all hunters hunt for sport and it is never for the purposes of food, you are seriously wrong.

I had to have my 15 yr old shihtzu euthanized last November and it was not a quick process. I cant say that she felt any pain other than the injection, but I can tell you that she was terrified, trembling, and whimpering up until her last breath, that seemed to take several minutes to come. It is an image and time that is stamped in my mind permanently and not something I think I could ever go through again.

[CavySpirit]

Originally Posted by this_lil_piggy

Every "hunter" may not be like him, but to say that all hunters hunt for sport and it is never for the purposes of food, you are seriously wrong.

I had to have my 15 yr old shihtzu euthanized last November and it was not a quick process. I cant say that she felt any pain other than the injection, but I can tell you that she was terrified, trembling, and whimpering up until her last breath, that seemed to take several minutes to come. It is an image and time that is stamped in my mind permanently and not something I think I could ever go through again.

You are right, every hunter is not like him. In fact, as you describe it, he might be .01% (that's not 1%, that's .01) of the hunting population. So, still no, my comment is not seriously wrong.

And what exactly is your point about euthanasia? No one has explained yet why this was brought up in this discussion as it relates to hunting.

[CBrewton5]

Every "hunter" may not be like him, but to say that all hunters hunt for sport and it is never for the purposes of food, you are seriously wrong.

*nods vigorously*

That's the point I was trying to make. There's very few things in life that are either black or white with no grey, and this is not one of those things. To take a myopic stance and not to be able to see all sides of it is dangerous, ESPECIALLY when children are involved. I'm a firm believer that at some point a child has got to be given ALL the facts of a situation, good and bad, and be trusted to make up his own mind and be prepared to accept the consequences that go along with that decision, and that this has to be done while the child is still in the care of the parent. Otherwise how can the child be expected to make the right choices after he 'leaves the nest' at 18 or 21 or whenever it happens? I'm not saying that a parent should not teach a child what beliefs they hold, but that the parent should be willing to accept it if the child, once they reach that age of accountability, does not hold the same beliefs themself.

And what exactly is your point about euthanasia? No one has explained yet why this was brought up in this discussion as it relates to hunting.

I did explain it, you just didn't like or don't agree with the analogy, and that's OK too. I voiced my opinion knowing full well that alot would not agree with me or understand where I was coming from with it, but it's still the way I feel about the subject.

[CavySpirit]

Euthanizing an animal in a vet's office is less humane than that if you want to look at it that way. When shot by a hunter a deer or rabbit or whatever else is usually dead before he hits the ground. The same is not true for an animal that is euthanized even by a licensed veterinarian.

What analogy? I'm just asking you to explain your point. I still don't get what you are saying. You seem to be saying that hunting is more humane than euthanasia. Why you are saying that, I don't know. Why are you comparing death by hunting to death by euthanasia? Are we talking about wild animals in their natural habitat? Are we talking about all animals and all means of death? Since we are talking about hunting -for food- it seems, why not compare death by hunting to death in a slaughter house. Again, I just don't understand what you are trying to say.

To take a myopic stance and not to be able to see all sides of it is dangerous, ESPECIALLY when children are involved.

Myopic? How so? And, are suggesting that we don't 'see all sides of it?' Aside from thrashing around in the woods myself and pulling the trigger, I've got many, many years of living the hunting life. I've heard hundreds of stories from family and friends about their mighty and manly adventures. I've probably seen more dead deer--on cars, strung up from their hooves in our barns, in our friends and family's barns, in our freezer, mounted on walls--than I've seen guinea pigs. And that's a lot. (I grew up in rural upstate New York.)

I'm a firm believer that at some point a child has got to be given ALL the facts of a situation, good and bad, and be trusted to make up his own mind and be prepared to accept the consequences that go along with that decision, and that this has to be done while the child is still in the care of the parent.

Not sure what to say to that. I guess I'm glad that the laws don't agree. Kids are still kids. I don't hold kids responsible for most things, I do hold their parents accountable--especially 12 years old. Of course, that and dime won't get you a cup of coffee.

[emoxrobot]

I am against hunting in general especially since I was witness to my dad bringing home at least one deer a year. It made me sick to my stomach to think about it then and it still does now. There are many other ways to bond with your grandparents besides teaming up and killing animals. I bonded with my grandparents and love them very much and we never hunted once nor did my brothers.

My question is who gives a 13 year old child the right to choose what he or she will and will not do? My parents said no to a lot of things that I wanted to do and I whined about it like any other kid, but you know what they were right about not letting me do a lot of things I felt I had the right to do. I was a child and I didn't always know what was best for me.

I don't think times have changed that much since you were a child T. The same things you said applied to me when I was young. I see that as time goes on kids can wrap their parents around their fingers. I see it at work (Babies R Us) and I can not believe the lack of authority parents have.

Anyways, I personally think you should say "Sorry Charlie" to your son and move on.

[CBrewton5]

Not sure what to say to that. I guess I'm glad that the laws don't agree. Kids are still kids. I don't hold kids responsible for most things, I do hold their parents accountable--especially 12 years old. Of course, that and dime won't get you a cup of coffee.

*sigh*

You still don't get it. I'm not saying that parents should not guide their children, nor am I saying that if they do something that is in violation of a law that the parents should not be held responsible. There are plenty of instances in this country where children commit felonies and are tried and punished as adults, though.

You still did not address the question that I posed though. If we do not allow children 12-18 years old to START making their own decisions when the actions are neither unlawful or life threatening, then how are they going to have the skill to do so when the stakes are really high and their decisions will affect the rest of their lives? It doesn't just happen, it's an acquired skill. I'd rather see a child make a bad decision while they are still under their parent's supervision and have help dealing with the aftermath, than to wait for that child to reach adulthood where such protection and shielding does not exist.

[CavySpirit]

I didn't think it needed an answer. It's called parenting. There is no simple answer. It seems pretty obvious to me. I think my parents did a great job. They promoted independence, yet drew lines and set boundaries. There was punishment and reward. You don't just turn 18 and all of sudden the rose colored glasses come off and the curtains are drawn back. But, you also don't get to do whatever you darn well want to throughout your childhood either.

I'd rather see a child make a bad decision while they are still under their parent's supervision and have help dealing with the aftermath, than to wait for that child to reach adulthood where such protection and shielding does not exist.

I really find this philosophy to be dangerous. Especially in this case, but also let's take another one or two. Getting a pet to 'teach the child responsibility.' Wrong in my opinion. Right by your definition. I will NOT adopt out to that circumstance. Another one. Breeding. Kids here and on the other forums do it all the time. Right by your definition. Wrong by mine.

[daftscotslass]

Originally Posted by CBrewton5

There's so many things wrong with that post it's hard to know how to reply. First of all, any experienced hunter when he hunts an animal will kill in ONE SHOT so there is little, if any, suffering. Euthanizing an animal in a vet's office is less humane than that if you want to look at it that way. When shot by a hunter a deer or rabbit or whatever else is usually dead before he hits the ground. The same is not true for an animal that is euthanized even by a licensed veterinarian.

Those two highlighted statements are reason enough for me not to condone hunting. I live in an area where deer, rabbit and pheasant are hunted for "sport" in managed areas. Having grown up with the children whose parents were the "hunters" I can tell you some rather colourful stories of deer gutted while their heart was still beating and pheasants only partially wounded by rifle cartridges to wait for the humans to finish them off by wringing their necks. Yes, I'm sure they only suffer a little while they wait for the inevitable.

Yet that is by an experienced hunter - what sort of damage do you think a 12 year old child would cause? What do you think it illustrates to a child to allow them to participate other than a blatent disregard for their responsibility towards wildlife.

I'm with Jarbax on the camping idea.

[Susan9608]

I'd rather see a child make a bad decision while they are still under their parent's supervision and have help dealing with the aftermath, than to wait for that child to reach adulthood where such protection and shielding does not exist.

I'd rather parents teach their children how to make good decisions, rather than standing by, allowing them to make bad decisions, and then helping them pick up the pieces.

I think teaching a child the inherent dangers and cruelty of hunting would do more for a child's decision making abilities than allowing them to go off hunting and kill innocent, sentient beings.

[Percy's Mom]

This is really a lot simpler than a lot of people are making it out to be.

12 years old = little kid = does what parents tell them to do.

Period. End of story. It could be roller blading, going shopping with friends, going to a concert, or yes, even hunting. The subject in question really doesn't matter.

Should they sit down and discuss the pros and cons and dangers of hunting? Absolutely. Should they be the one to make the decision to go hunting. Not on your life.

Hopefully, the grandfather in this case would respect the decision of HIS child on how they want to raise THEIR child and what is permissable.

[CBrewton5]

Getti