Help!

[evilnumberlady]

My boyfriend's parents are thinking about breeding their two (pet quality, but purebreed) daushounds.

I'm trying to come up with a polite way to disuade them. I was thinking that maybe I should buy them a book about breeding that would point out all the stuff they have never considered.. like the fact that the dog should really meet AKC standards and that they would need through genetic knowledge.

I don't think people should breed in any case, but if I give them anything too anti-breeding they might just dismiss it altogether. Thoughts? Advice about what book to suggest?

[Slave to the Wheek]

Hmm. If it were me? I might start with reading up a bit on dachsund breeding. Then I would ask pointed questions. I believe that dachsunds are one of the breeds that require C sections all the time. Knowing that it could easily COST you to breed them, could dissuade them. I doubt they could get any real money from pet quality puppies, especially if they have to do a C section.

In addition, I believe there are a ton of genetic defects but not sure.Puppies born with hip displasia are next to impossible to sell..etc.. If you bone up a bit, you might be able to ask them what the point is when they more than likely will go broke doing it.

My goofy brother thought he could make big bucks breeding Chocolate Labs.
No Clue written all over his forhead. Let's just say it was a disaster and I ended up having to adopt out a couple of his poorly bred pups through a rescue because he didn't want to pay for the operation to have their eyelids fixed from their genetic defects. His female was spayed after her second litter. Parvo. 'Nuf said.

[naturestee]

Get some nitty-gritty info on breeding dachsunds. Common genetic problems, available testing, problems in birth and rearing, etc. Make sure they know that unless they do all those expensive health tests they could very well end up with babies with severe genetic problems. Not to mention all the vet care necessary before breeding, during pregnancy, and while raising the puppies. Plus the expensive food they should feed if they want a healthy mom and pups. While you're at it see if you can find a dachsund breed rescue and show them the homeless purebreds.

Maybe if they realized how very hard it is to breed properly (as properly as breeding can be, that is) they'd decide it's too much fuss and hard work.

[fairysari]

Where did your BF's parents get the dogs? I know some breeders sell their dogs with a non-breeding agreement.

I found this one link which might help you convince them not to breed: TO BREED OR NOT TO BREED – THAT IS THE QUESTION

Basically it says the only reason you should breed is for the betterment of the breed (and it is iffy even then). So basically, unless these dogs have been shown and won ribbons, you have no idea about their conformation. The dogs aren't related to each other are they? That could be even worse.

[crazywiggy]

I agree with the ideas about showing them how many rescue dacshunds there are and how hard it is to breed.

I don't know much about dachsund specifically, but a lot of breeds suffer from hereditary problems and should be tested (e.g. for hip dysplasia etc) before being bred. This would only add to the expense.

Best of luck at convincing them.

[VoodooJoint]

I had great luck with someone I knew who had an American Eskimo that they wanted to breed. My normal arguments of "overpopulation, etc" were not working so I told them they should enter their dog into a dog show to see how well she stacked up against her peers to see if she was even a good representation of the breed. I also told them about having her tested and xrayed to insure her health and soundness and the importance of tracing her lineage and genetics.

They finally thought that was a great idea as they were certain she was the most wonderful, beautiful dog in the world.

Their dog came in dead last in the show. They said they knew they were not going to do well before they even got to the ring because just comparing her to the show dogs before the show she looked so different. The judge (and other breeders) pointed out to them (kindly) all her faults. Ear length, top line and shoulder height/length ratio, coat faults, gait problems, teeth, you name it.

They did talk to other breeders at the show who told my friends how expensive, difficult and time consuming it is to breed "quality" show dogs. In short they did all they could to talk my friends out of breeding (much different then cavy shows).

In the end they made the wise choice to have her spayed.

[GuineaFood]

I'd suggest, rather than discussing the issue directly with them (and possibly creating a confrontational situation), providing them with accurate information about breeding from all aspects, let them make up their own minds, and then respect whatever decision they come to. You may disagree with the outcome if they still decide to breed, but it is their right as adults to make the decision for themselves. For all you know, the information you provide may be enough to convince them not to become breeders without any need of trying to influence their decision with your own beliefs. Best of luck

[fashion victim]

The following information is from the book "Encyclopedia of Dog Breeds" by Doctor Caroline Coile, Ph.D. The parts in italic are copied word for word, the normal font is my own.

It says under the Health Section:
Major concerns: intervertebral disc disease (Gastric torsion, or gastric dilation-volvulus) is a digestive problem often called "bloat"; it's a twisting of the stomach that traps the stomach contents and gases, and can lead to death if untreated.

Minor concerns: KCS (Keratoconjunctivitis sicca) is an eye problem defined
as a decreased tear production of the eye causing a dry eye and damage to the cornea. They have to get a tear test to rule out this condition.

My friend's miniature dachshund had this condition. She never got it treated and the dog had huge eye crusts. She had cataracts too, I don't know if that was a result of this damage to the cornea or of old age.

Occasionally seen: diabetes, epilepsy, patellar luxation (it's a skeletal condtion defined as a shallow groove in the knee, so that the knee cap [patella] slips in and out of position, causing lameness. Though seen in many breeds, it is most common in small dogs. A radiograph of stifle [knee] is used to determine if the dog suffers from this condition.), and deafness.

Note: Obesity is a major problem for the dachshund. Many dachshunds tend to be overweight, which in turn predisposes them to invertebral disc disease.

Canine hip displaxia, or CHD, is a skeletal condition defined as an abnormal development of the hip assembly wherein the head of the femur does not fit snugly into the pelvic socket. The dog has to get a hip radiograph to diagnose this problem. However, the book lists the 97 breeds which have reported at least 100 cases per breed and the dachshnd isn't listed even with a small ocurrence. That is not to say that maybe a dachshund can't get it, only that if they do then less than 100 cases have been reported to the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA).

The weight and height standards are:
Weight: Miniature - 11 lb and under ; Standard - over 11 lb (usuallly 16- 32 lb)
Height: Miniature - 5 to 6 inches; Standard - 8 to 9 inches

Tell them how it's unethical to sell animals with genetic problems and how they have to rule out all these conditions in both the parents and could get lawsuits for selling animals with such a poor genetic makeup. Also tell them about all these conditions and the cost of having both parents tested for each of them.

The below information I got from a site which promotes breeding and showing, so I'm not going to post the address. However the information is completely paraphrased by me so it's not exactly the same or even remotely similar to the original article. The information is the same, only put in simpler, different words by me.

A dog which doesn't meet AKC standards is considered to be a poor example of the breed or doesn't belong to the breed at all. Adhering to the breed standards is important so as to maintain the integrity and health of the breed. Mixed breed dogs or dogs that do not meet the standard can still make wonderful pets, but they should be altered so they don't contribute to that breed's decline. Even if a dog looks like the breed it's supposed to be it may be carrying genes with charecteristics that are not typical to the breed. These dogs should not be bred except if the dogs in the pedigree do not have any debilitating genetic problems and/or serious faults.

However, just because a dog has AKC doesn't certify their purity of breed because to get an AKC registration the AKC doesn't even check the parents or puppies to see if they qualify for registration. It depends on the breeder's honesty when they apply for registration of a litter.

Also remember that a female dog can be impregnated by several dogs in her fertile cycle, so in puppy mills where females and males of different breeds that are house together a female can be impregnated by a male of a different breed and then the puppies have a "purebred" mother and questionable fathers. This can lead to people buying a puppy thinking it belongs to a specific breed and then having it grow up with completely different characteristics.

This is why a DNA test of both the parents should be taken so your friend can be sure that none of their ancestors were not purebreds. If they find out the dachshunds had other breeds mixed in their lineage and still decide to sell then this is very unethical and inmoral and those people could get in big trouble.

The process for registering an animal is as follows: When a pup is whelped the breeder registers the litter. The AKC sends a blue slip for each individual pup. When the pup is bought the breeder signs the pup over to the buyer. Afterwards the buyer can register the pup in his/her name and is sent by mail a registration certificate. The cost of registering a litter is 20 dollars, and the cost of individual registration is 10 dollars apiece.

I'm sorry for such a long post, I just want you to be very well informed so you can have very good reasons to convince those people to NOT breed.

[GuineaFood]

The idea, is to give people relevent information, not indulge in scare-mongering. The first section you quoted, is just that.

Originally Posted by claudie123

The following information is from the book "Encyclopedia of Dog Breeds" by Doctor Caroline Coile, Ph.D. The parts in italic are copied word for word, the normal font is my own.

It says under the Health Section:
Major concerns: intervertebral disc disease (Gastric torsion, or gastric dilation-volvulus) is a digestive problem often called "bloat"; it's a twisting of the stomach that traps the stomach contents and gases, and can lead to death if untreated.

Minor concerns: KCS (Keratoconjunctivitis sicca) is an eye problem defined
as a decreased tear production of the eye causing a dry eye and damage to the cornea. They have to get a tear test to rule out this condition.

My friend's miniature dachshund had this condition. She never got it treated and the dog had huge eye crusts. She had cataracts too, I don't know if that was a result of this damage to the cornea or of old age.

Occasionally seen: diabetes, epilepsy, patellar luxation (it's a skeletal condtion defined as a shallow groove in the knee, so that the knee cap [patella] slips in and out of position, causing lameness. Though seen in many breeds, it is most common in small dogs. A radiograph of stifle [knee] is used to determine if the dog suffers from this condition.), and deafness.

Note: Obesity is a major problem for the dachshund. Many dachshunds tend to be overweight, which in turn predisposes them to invertebral disc disease.

Those are conditions that can affect any dog, they are not necessarily health issues that will always occur. I agree, dachsunds can be susceptible to spinal problems, but that is something for the owner to be aware of and prevent, the only onus for such a breeder, would simply be to make the new owner aware of isses specific to dachshund's that they might develop through improper care. Obesity is not a problem (or certainly should not be) because an owner should a) exercise their dog regularly and b) provide them with a suitable diet, not overfeed them or give them titbits constantly, which would encourage obesity. Again, that is something that could affect any dog, but it is something for the owner to guard against.

Originally Posted by Claudie123

Canine hip displaxia, or CHD, is a skeletal condition defined as an abnormal development of the hip assembly wherein the head of the femur does not fit snugly into the pelvic socket. The dog has to get a hip radiograph to diagnose this problem. However, the book lists the 97 breeds which have reported at least 100 cases per breed and the dachshnd isn't listed even with a small ocurrence. That is not to say that maybe a dachshund can't get it, only that if they do then less than 100 cases have been reported to the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA).

If dachsunds aren't even listed with a small occurence, what is the likelihood of one developing that condition? Yes, it may be possible for one to develop it, but from those statistics given, it is clearly highly unlikely, so utterly irrelevent to the issue of breeding or not. The kind of information that would be more suitable, would be likelihood of complications during pregnancy, and the attendant costs involved.

Originally Posted by Claudie123

The weight and height standards are:
Weight: Miniature - 11 lb and under ; Standard - over 11 lb (usuallly 16- 32 lb)
Height: Miniature - 5 to 6 inches; Standard - 8 to 9 inches

Tell them how it's unethical to sell animals with genetic problems and how they have to rule out all these conditions in both the parents and could get lawsuits for selling animals with such a poor genetic makeup. Also tell them about all these conditions and the cost of having both parents tested for each of them.

It is only unethical to sell animals with genetic conditions if they are being sold as genetically perfect. If one of the pups was to be born with special needs, giving that pup to someone experienced with dealing with pups with special needs would not be unethical at all, because the pup would not be being sold 'as perfect', and it would be going to a home where it's particular needs would be understood and catered for. In this instance, yes, the onus is on the breeder to make sure that the prospective owner is qualified and suitable to deal with any special needs the pup might have, but conversation with prospective owners is not difficult.
For example, when my fiance and I decided to get our Rex guinea, we knew in advance that they were being born (accidental litter) so were able to choose the one we wanted 5 days after birth, and then knew we would have to wait between 6-8 weeks before she would be strong enough to leave her mother. When we called back to collect Ruffles, we were told that she had developed a crippled leg, so she had been given to someone who specialized in caring for disabled guineas, so she would get the ultimate in care that she needed, but we were welcome to choose from the remaining pups, and that is how we wound up with Rico. The person we bought Rico from knew that we knew how to look after guineas, but knew Ruffles would be better with someone who was experienced at dealing with guineas with special needs, so as I said above, that onus is on the breeder, but is not an impossible situation to overcome.

Originally Posted by Claudie123

The below information I got from a site which promotes breeding and showing, so I'm not going to post the address. However the information is completely paraphrased by me so it's not exactly the same or even remotely similar to the original article. The information is the same, only put in simpler, different words by me.

A dog which doesn't meet AKC standards is considered to be a poor example of the breed or doesn't belong to the breed at all. Adhering to the breed standards is important so as to maintain the integrity and health of the breed. Mixed breed dogs or dogs that do not meet the standard can still make wonderful pets, but they should be altered so they don't contribute to that breed's decline. Even if a dog looks like the breed it's supposed to be it may be carrying genes with charecteristics that are not typical to the breed. These dogs should not be bred except if the dogs in the pedigree do not have any debilitating genetic problems and/or serious faults.

However, just because a dog has AKC doesn't certify their purity of breed because to get an AKC registration the AKC doesn't even check the parents or puppies to see if they qualify for registration. It depends on the breeder's honesty when they apply for registration of a litter.

Also remember that a female dog can be impregnated by several dogs in her fertile cycle, so in puppy mills where females and males of different breeds that are house together a female can be impregnated by a male of a different breed and then the puppies have a "purebred" mother and questionable fathers. This can lead to people buying a puppy thinking it belongs to a specific breed and then having it grow up with completely different characteristics.

This is why a DNA test of both the parents should be taken so your friend can be sure that none of their ancestors were not purebreds. If they find out the dachshunds had other breeds mixed in their lineage and still decide to sell then this is very unethical and inmoral and those people could get in big trouble.

If they are not purebred dachshunds, then it would be dishonest and actionable (due to false advertizing) to sell pups as purebred dachshunds. It would not, however, be unethical to sell them simply as pups.
While the expense of a DNA test is an expence worth notifying these people of, so they are aware of the necessities and consequences, doing so in such a manner which threatens litigation is simply unnecessary, don't forget, she is talking about her in laws, family members, not simply neighbours she disaproves of, so as I said in my above post, there is a way of delivering the information in a non-confrontational way. Scare-stories about diseases that might never affect the dogs and litigation for selling half-breeds is not the way to do it in a non-confrontational way.

Originally Posted by Claudie123

The process for registering an animal is as follows: When a pup is whelped the breeder registers the litter. The AKC sends a blue slip for each individual pup. When the pup is bought the breeder signs the pup over to the buyer. Afterwards the buyer can register the pup in his/her name and is sent by mail a registration certificate. The cost of registering a litter is 20 dollars, and the cost of individual registration is 10 dollars apiece.

This is indeed relevent information which they should be made aware of, but again, it can be delivered in a non-confrontational way. It can be explained that there are procedures and regulations that need to be followed and the costs that go along with that, it doesn't have to be told in a high-handed or belittling manner, as it may be something that the people genuinely were unaware of. If it is something that they already were aware of, then being told about it as if they were country bumpkins is likely to insult and offend them, and as I said, we are talking about a person's inlaws, so there is the need to keep the exchange non-confrontational.

Originally Posted by Claudie123

I'm sorry for such a long post, I just want you to be very well informed so you can have very good reasons to convince those people to NOT breed.

I'm sorry if you feel I have ripped your post to shreds, but as I said above in my first post, there is a way of delivering the information in a pleasant and informative manner, so there is no need to be confrontational about enforcing one's own beliefs onto adults who have the right to make up their own minds about something. As I said above, giving them accurate and relevent information about breeding is the best way to persuade them that they might not want to become breeders, but ultimately, the decision is theirs alone. Giving them scare-stories about health issues that might never occur, will only weaken this person's point, and likely cost her the respect of her inlaws. As with everything, there is a right and a wrong way to go about doing things.

[fashion victim]

Originally Posted by GuineaFood

The idea, is to give people relevent information, not indulge in scare-mongering. The first section you quoted, is just that.
Those are conditions that can affect any dog, they are not necessarily health issues that will always occur. I agree, dachsunds can be susceptible to spinal problems, but that is something for the owner to be aware of and prevent, the only onus for such a breeder, would simply be to make the new owner aware of isses specific to dachshund's that they might develop through improper care. Obesity is not a problem (or certainly should not be) because an owner should a) exercise their dog regularly and b) provide them with a suitable diet, not overfeed them or give them titbits constantly, which would encourage obesity. Again, that is something that could affect any dog, but it is something for the owner to guard against.

If you had the book you wouldn't be criticizing the health problems I stated. The books gives a 2 page profile on every single AKC breed, at least up until the book was written. Those specific statistics are listed under the dachshund profile. This is a serious, published book written by a certified veterinarian. Yes, other dogs do have those conditions, but I only mentioned the ones that dachshunds most commonly suffer from, according to the book. I did NOT make up any of the facts. The difinitions of the conditions come from a glossary at the end of the book and I only added them to clarify what each of them causes. The rest of the information on the health problems pertains to dachshunds SPECIFICALLY. It's the ocurrence on DACHSHUNDS ONLY. The health statistics for other breeds are DIFFERENT.


Look, you're not getting the whole thing about diseases. These things are being PASSED ON through bad genes by irresponsible breeders. These diseases won't occur because of improper care, they are just likely to pop up later on in the dog's life because it's in their GENES, their genetic makeup.

Haven't you heard of people who have diseases like high blood pressure or epilepsia or mental conditions which they did nothing to acquire? They were passed on by their parents and earlier ancestors. My whole life has been a LIVING HELL because my dad's family suffer from mental conditions, and I'm bipolar, have severe depression year round and constantly suffer from panic or nervous attacks. I did not get those diseases from someone or through bad parenting. I was BORN that way. Same thing applies to these animals.

Remember that to start a breed a lot of inbreeding happens, and thus a lot of the descendants of the earliest examples of breeds share a bunch of diseases which the few starting dogs had.

And obesity IS a problem. Some people can't lose weight even through extreme dieting and exercise and weight loss pills. I'm weight less than 120 pounds, usually 112. This is considered to be perfectly healthy, even though some people classify this as low. However, my arms are extremely fat even though I lift weights every single day and I do a lot of cardio. My only solution would be lipo, and even then they would go back afterwards. This I INHERITED from my mother's side of the family. Absolutely all of the females that I personally know that are related to my mother have this exact problem.

Do you know anything about dachshunds? Have you seen them exercise? If you did, then you'd know that these dogs can't zoom from place to place like a more agile dog can due to their extremely short legs and long body. If it took me more effort to run then I wouldn't do it much either. That's what's linked to the obesity problem - the inability of dachshunds to do much exercise. My Chihuahua runs from one end to the house to the other in less than 5 seconds, and my house is pretty huge. It would take a weiner dog much more effort and time to run the same distance.

Originally Posted by GuineaFood

If dachsunds aren't even listed with a small occurence, what is the likelihood of one developing that condition? Yes, it may be possible for one to develop it, but from those statistics given, it is clearly highly unlikely, so utterly irrelevent to the issue of breeding or not. The kind of information that would be more suitable, would be likelihood of complications during pregnancy, and the attendant costs involved.

I only provided the information on hip displaxia because a lot of people were mentioning it and I wanted to clarify its low occurence on the breed we are discussing.

I can't provide attendant costs because every single vet will have a different price for each procedure/medication/consultation. The would-be breeders should find this out themselves from the vet they plan to use.

Originally Posted by GuineaFood

It is only unethical to sell animals with genetic conditions if they are being sold as genetically perfect. If one of the pups was to be born with special needs, giving that pup to someone experienced with dealing with pups with special needs would not be unethical at all, because the pup would not be being sold 'as perfect', and it would be going to a home where it's particular needs would be understood and catered for. In this instance, yes, the onus is on the breeder to make sure that the prospective owner is qualified and suitable to deal with any special needs the pup might have, but conversation with prospective owners is not difficult.
For example, when my fiance and I decided to get our Rex guinea, we knew in advance that they were being born (accidental litter) so were able to choose the one we wanted 5 days after birth, and then knew we would have to wait between 6-8 weeks before she would be strong enough to leave her mother. When we called back to collect Ruffles, we were told that she had developed a crippled leg, so she had been given to someone who specialized in caring for disabled guineas, so she would get the ultimate in care that she needed, but we were welcome to choose from the remaining pups, and that is how we wound up with Rico. The person we bought Rico from knew that we knew how to look after guineas, but knew Ruffles would be better with someone who was experienced at dealing with guineas with special needs, so as I said above, that onus is on the breeder, but is not an impossible situation to overcome.

Look, selling animals that are going to develop conditions later on is the fastest way to get the animal dumped. VERY FEW people are willing to pay for thousands of dollars on surgeries and treatment for an animal, so if the animal gets something too expensive to fix then the people either have it euthanised or dump it on a shelter. This I know from personal experience. In fact, my best friend's mother has gotten rid of 2 purebred animals she bought herself because of simple behaviour problems that can be fixed with a dog obedience course which costs about 100 dollars. She did not want to spend her time or money on correcting the behaviour problems so she took them to a shelter. It's very unfair of a breeder to sell an animal to a person which will then be saddled with huge costs on vet bills because the dog had faulty genes due to the breeder not being qualified to breed in the sense of not being completely informed on what breeding entails.

Originally Posted by GuineaFood

If they are not purebred dachshunds, then it would be dishonest and actionable (due to false advertizing) to sell pups as purebred dachshunds. It would not, however, be unethical to sell them simply as pups.
While the expense of a DNA test is an expence worth notifying these people of, so they are aware of the necessities and consequences, doing so in such a manner which threatens litigation is simply unnecessary, don't forget, she is talking about her in laws, family members, not simply neighbours she disaproves of, so as I said in my above post, there is a way of delivering the information in a non-confrontational way. Scare-stories about diseases that might never affect the dogs and litigation for selling half-breeds is not the way to do it in a non-confrontational way.

How is it not wrong to claim that a dog belongs to a specific breed and then have it grow up and prove otherwise? Say a person can only have a dog with a very small size and weight do to housing rules because the person is living in a rented place. Off the person goes and buys a "Chihuahua", who supposedly weight only up to 6 pounds. However, the dog starts growing and developing characteristics not seen in real Chihuahuas. It grows up weighting 12 pounds and it's height is more than one foot and a half. What then? Most apartments that allow dogs have a specific size and weight rule. The person would then either have to move to another place of give the dog up. Guess what - it's much easier to take an animal to the pound that to pack and move everything and search for an apartment with the same cost, different rules, and in the same area.

Check the sixth post in this thread: http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/...ont-think.html.

They SELL, not give, a "CHIHUAHUA" and look how it turns up when it grows. How dare a person take advantage like this?
Also look at the 11th post right there, which is what I responded.

If I bred and sold animals I'd test them for all diseases and have their DNAs checked. It's not fair bringing in more sick animals to a world where most people won't give them the proper care, and it's not fair to take advantage of the poor people who do love their animals so much that they'll sacrifice a lot of their money to save. Only by doing all these tests would I feel a clean concience because I would know I'm an honest breeder.

Originally Posted by GuineaFood

the decision is theirs alone

Yes, it is their decision, but it's also OUR duty to try every possible way to disuade them from breeding. Every member of this forum knows about the huge population problem with animals, and we should pass this on to would-be breeders.

Finally, I was not attacking anyone, I was just stating FACTS from a book and my own opinions. I think I have the right to make an opinion on breeding practices and call them whichever way I want. Most if not all the people here have no respect whatsoever or breeders and many say much worse and stronger things than I did. The way in which she [evilnumberlady] decides to deliver this information is entirely her choice, and I'm positive she's not going to go off to her inlaws and rant my information word for word.

[GuineaFood]

Originally Posted by claudie123

If you had the book you wouldn't be criticizing the health problems I stated. The books gives a 2 page profile on every single AKC breed, at least up until the book was written. Those specific statistics are listed under the dachshund profile. This is a serious, published book written by a certified veterinarian. Yes, other dogs do have those conditions, but I only mentioned the ones that dachshunds most commonly suffer from, according to the book. I did NOT make up any of the facts. The difinitions of the conditions come from a glossary at the end of the book and I only added them to clarify what each of them causes. The rest of the information on the health problems pertains to dachshunds SPECIFICALLY. It's the ocurrence on DACHSHUNDS ONLY. The health statistics for other breeds are DIFFERENT.

First off, I never said that you were making anything up. Second, I do not have the book, so I do not know how the information in it is catagorized. I am sure whoever wrote it is most knowledgeable about the subject, but, the way you presented the information, was done in such a way that it appeared to be complaints that any dog can suffer from, rather than dachshunds specifically. I apologize if I mis-interpereted your post, but giving out information like that needs to be labelled as specific to a breed, so it cannot be miss-interpereted. Also, I doubt the people thinking of breeding the dachshunds have the book at present, so giving them information in an incomplete way, makes it more likely to appear irrelevent, and make them disregard it.

Originally Posted by Claudie123

Look, you're not getting the whole thing about diseases. These things are being PASSED ON through bad genes by irresponsible breeders. These diseases won't occur because of improper care, they are just likely to pop up later on in the dog's life because it's in their GENES, their genetic makeup.

I understand that. Who is to say though, that these people will be irresponsible breeders? There is such anti-breeding sentiment on this forum that people refuse to acknowledge that there are some breeders who make extensive checks of their pet's genetic history, are totally informed about any issues or complications, and will be stringent when vetting potential owners. Treating everyone like some bumpkin backyard mill breeder is not how to encourage people not to become breeders, it is just disrespectfull. By all means provide relevent information, but do so in a non-confrontational way (this is not aimed at you personally) and then let them make up their own minds. They are adults afterall, not miss-informed children.

Originally Posted by Claudie123

Haven't you heard of people who have diseases like high blood pressure or epilepsia or mental conditions which they did nothing to acquire? They were passed on by their parents and earlier ancestors. My whole life has been a LIVING HELL because my dad's family suffer from mental conditions, and I'm bipolar, have severe depression year round and constantly suffer from panic or nervous attacks. I did not get those diseases from someone or through bad parenting. I was BORN that way. Same thing applies to these animals.

Yes, animals inherit behavioural characteristics the same as humans do, so what? If people who begin breeding research the lineage and genetic history of their animals to begin with, then any inherited defects can be avoided. Again, do not assume that just because these people wish to breed animals that they are miss-informed idiots who are not capable of researching the subject themselves in an adult manner. By only giving people half the story, they cannot make a properly informed choice.

Originally Posted by Claudie123

Remember that to start a breed a lot of inbreeding happens, and thus a lot of the descendants of the earliest examples of breeds share a bunch of diseases which the few starting dogs had.

And what if the parents are healthy and their genetic history is clear of inherited diseases? If proper research is done, then it ceases to be a problem. For all we know, these people might be thinking of breeding their dogs with outside stock that has been equally stringently screened, again, my point about assuming breeder = miss-informed bumpkin applies...

Originally Posted by Claudie123

And obesity IS a problem. Some people can't lose weight even through extreme dieting and exercise and weight loss pills. I'm weight less than 120 pounds, usually 112. This is considered to be perfectly healthy, even though some people classify this as low. However, my arms are extremely fat even though I lift weights every single day and I do a lot of cardio. My only solution would be lipo, and even then they would go back afterwards. This I INHERITED from my mother's side of the family. Absolutely all of the females that I personally know that are related to my mother have this exact problem.

Again, obesity is not a problem, because it's up to an animal owner (or person for that matter) not to overfeed in the first place. If an animal is not overfed to begin with, it cannot become obese, can it.

Originally Posted by Claudie123

Do you know anything about dachshunds? Have you seen them exercise? If you did, then you'd know that these dogs can't zoom from place to place like a more agile dog can due to their extremely short legs and long body. If it took me more effort to run then I wouldn't do it much either. That's what's linked to the obesity problem - the inability of dachshunds to do much exercise. My Chihuahua runs from one end to the house to the other in less than 5 seconds, and my house is pretty huge. It would take a weiner dog much more effort and time to run the same distance.

So the same answer as I gave above applies: Do not overfeed the animal to begin with, and make sure it is suitably exercized. If it isn't overfed, and is suitably exercized, how is it going to become obese? There's a difference between inheriting a large frame and becoming obese due to excess food. My Rex guinea is 4 months old, and is already 10 inches long, he will probably wind up 14-15 inches long. In any other breed, this would be considered large, and could be considered 'obese', but for a Rex, it is apparently quite normal. Without other breeders to discuss the issue with, I would not have known this, so I might have thought he was being overfed, as it is, I now know that in 5 months, he's probably going to need a new hutch, as his current one was only designed to accomodate a standard sized guinea. Not all breeders are bad. Without access to all the information, people can make miss-informed choices and decisions.

Originally Posted by Claudie123

I only provided the information on hip displaxia because a lot of people were mentioning it and I wanted to clarify its low occurence on the breed we are discussing.

But the way in which you presented that information did not clarify it's low occurence. If anything, it presented it as something that probably does happen but not