branding livestock

[fashion victim]

Originally Posted by this_lil_piggy

Paint isnt permanent, but its replaceable.....and cheap. If they can handle each cow to shoot them with hormones and antibiotics and worm medications, they can surely repaint their butts.

Even if paint isnt a very effective way, then why not smaller ear tags that are flat against the skin of the ear. The problem with the ear tags is they are stinking HUGE and they hang out of the ears. Cows easily snag them on trees, fences, and other cows rip them out. Since the post of the tags are about as big around as a half dollar, it takes a whole lotta ear off when it gets ripped out. This could all be avoided by placing a smaller, flat tag that is situated in the ear rather than hanging off of it. Correcting that problem wouldnt be a matter of price, rather a matter of laziness. It would take a little extra time.

You know, I'm not at all sure they take good care of their animals or deworm them or anything. Most of the animals I've seen show all their ribs but have huge bulging bellies. I don't know if that's because they're pregnant or because their bellies are full of parasites like puppies before they are dewormed. They let them roam all over the mountains for a reason: not buy them the horse or cow feed. Those animals eat grass and my father's (and other people's) fruits and veggies.

That's a nice idea, though. I'll ask my father to mention it. Not sure if those people want to dedicate enough time to do it. They really don't care about the animals, just the little money they get from selling the offspring.

[kavykrazy]

Originally Posted by this_lil_piggy

Paint isnt permanent, but its replaceable.....and cheap. If they can handle each cow to shoot them with hormones and antibiotics and worm medications, they can surely repaint their butts.

The need for a permanent ID is to prove ownership. If paint is used, a thief could easily remove the paint and repaint with his own ID.

As for electric fences, which I use, depending on the strength, they can really zap you. Once zapped, most animals will not touch it again. As for birds, they will only get zapped if they are touching the ground the same time they touch the fence.

[this_lil_piggy]

Think about it though. What ID IS permanent?
Ear tags can be removed. Then you have a cow with a hole or half missing ear, and you can "say" its your cow, but you have no proof.
Brands, both cold and heat, can be covered with new brands just like a tatoo. Then what proof do you have?

The only ID that comes close to perfect would be genetics--blood work, and no one is going to do that. The little electronic embedded devices might be harder to manipulate than tags or brands, but again its not cost efficient.

Not much is perfect or permanent. If someone really wanted to steal cattle, they could do it regardless of tags or brands. Lost cattle usually return home on their own. A neighbor of ours has a bull that knocks the fence down and comes to visit our land all the time, but he always manages to find his way back home. Our donkeys will often go over on the same neighbors land, but eventually will return. When we see a cow out we call the local farmers and ask if they are missing one..... they know how many head they have, and can easily tell when one is missing. I see more and more farmers here not bothering too much with identification as they used to. Maybe its because we are more of a dairy area than a beef area. Im glad to see it though. It still makes me sad to see the cows of the farmers that do still have tagged cattle. I just know with very little effort, they could find a better way, if they just would.

Honestly, Im not argueing against you, just talking out loud more or less.

[kavykrazy]

If the neighbor's cows are wandering like that then they will be in trouble if the government has their way with the NAIS. All livestock and poultry will need to have some form of permanent ID, still to be determined by the government. This will include all pet animals (livestock type) as well. Anyone with even one of the listed species will have to record their address and how many of each type they own. Anytime an animal leaves the premisis and returns, the government will need to be notified. This also applies if the animal accidently gets loose. So if the government decides branding is required, we will all have to brand. (or microchip, eartag, tatoo, whatever)

[Jennicat]

Originally Posted by Lyndsay

Hrm, never though of the birds, it's ment to give livestock and farm animals a little shock, but now that you mention the birds, it is like a ribbon thing. Okay scrap that idea.

Birds aren't generally hurt by electric fences, because they aren't grounded. It's like sitting on power lines for them.

[fashion victim]

Originally Posted by kavykrazy

If the neighbor's cows are wandering like that then they will be in trouble if the government has their way with the NAIS. All livestock and poultry will need to have some form of permanent ID, still to be determined by the government. This will include all pet animals (livestock type) as well. Anyone with even one of the listed species will have to record their address and how many of each type they own. Anytime an animal leaves the premisis and returns, the government will need to be notified. This also applies if the animal accidently gets loose. So if the government decides branding is required, we will all have to brand. (or microchip, eartag, tatoo, whatever)

Will that apply here in Puerto Rico too? It IS a United States territory, but I'm not sure if people will care because since no one here (law enforcement people) is paid well enough because of the government officials stealing all the money then they just turn a blind eye or just don't care.

[Sabriel]

Will that apply here in Puerto Rico too? It IS a United States territory,

You know, I didn't know that. Are you actually under American laws or is it kinda like Canada where the British Queen is also our Queen but we make our own laws?

It really is true though, you learn something new everyday!

[kavykrazy]

I don't think it would apply to Puerto Rico. It is supposedly for the purpose of tracking animal movements in case of disease outbreaks. There will be a bigger affect for the single livestock owner than for the big commercial producers. If you have a pet horse (or goat, cow, donkey, sheep, etc.), you will have to have an individual number for each animal. If you take your animal to the vet, a trail ride off your property, or whatever, then you will need to report this. Commercial producers will need just one lot number for each group of animals. Since their animals are mainly intended for slaughter, they get to use one number for each group.

[fashion victim]

Originally Posted by Sabriel

You know, I didn't know that. Are you actually under American laws or is it kinda like Canada where the British Queen is also our Queen but we make our own laws?

It really is true though, you learn something new everyday!

Wow I didn't know about your Canada being under British reign either. I asked your question to my father (he's a lawyer) and he says that the United States has some general laws (federal government) which we have to obey except when they don't apply, like if the there's a law in the U.S. about keeping driveways snow-free but since there's no snow here (only heat that compares to hellfire) then it doesn't apply. We have our own laws too, like in the U.S. each state has its own set of laws apart from the general laws. We have our own governor, which in here is the highest authority, just like your president.

[this_lil_piggy]

Around here, you cant get the govt or anyone else to pay attention to much of anything. It is really sad in some ways.
Just for instance, My neighbor went to jail for drugs back in the Spring. His elderly mother went to live with his sister 2 hours from here. Their dogs are still at their house........abandoned, alone, running loose, and barely fed! Theyve got another neighbor, which is some sort of kin to them, coming to feed the animals..... but he only comes maybe twice a week. I am constantly having to run the dogs off from my house because they sneak down here, dump over my garbage bin, and tear garbage all over my yard. I've inquired about it with a couple of deputy sheriffs and I am told there basically isnt anything anyone can do. We dont have animal control out here in the sticks. The deputies could take them to a local vet (where they would prolly be put down if they didnt adopt out quickly) if they could catch them, but that has proved impossible.......Ive tried to catch them 100 times over. Ive called shelters and rescues in my area and they all tell me 1) they are filled to the gills already and 2) they only take in strays (since these dogs technically belong to someone they dont count)

Its really beginning to tick me off.

[Spiffy'n'Spunky]

Here in Lake Havasu, AZ, we use a dye, to dye the hair with a design or shape. We don't let ours roam freely because of the cyotes, but we do it so that if they ever get out someone can say, "hey I found this horse with a blue K dyed on it, who's is it?" The dye doesn't seem to bother them at all. If anything they get annoyed at standing still for so long, but a steady flow a yummy goodies keeps them content.

[janetangel]

There is an electric fence at the stables for the horses who run in the big pasture. The horses stay away from it, I have not seen any smaller animals hurt by it. It does help to keep the coyotes out of the pasture. There are tons of birds there from guinea hens, peacocks and pigeons. They often hang with the horses.

[jackrussellgirl]

Electric fences don't hurt large animals and I have never heard of a bird landing on one. The wires are pretty thin and I don't think they would be able to stay on them. I have been shocked by an electric fence and it does hurt but the pain goes away quickly. On a 500 lb+ animal I imagine it only feels like a static shock. I have seen horses touch the fence and they don't react too bad, it mostly startles them.
As for the perminant ID, I know some larger farms are using micro chips (the same kind used in dogs). It costs a lot more than branding but it cannot be altered or removed. I know for sure they are being put in horses and I believe in some cows but not many. It just feels like getting a shot at the vet to put them in. Hopefully as the technology gets more developed they will be cheeper and become more widely used.

[jackrussellgirl]

Originally Posted by this_lil_piggy

Around here, you cant get the govt or anyone else to pay attention to much of anything. It is really sad in some ways.
Just for instance, My neighbor went to jail for drugs back in the Spring. His elderly mother went to live with his sister 2 hours from here. Their dogs are still at their house........abandoned, alone, running loose, and barely fed! Theyve got another neighbor, which is some sort of kin to them, coming to feed the animals..... but he only comes maybe twice a week. I am constantly having to run the dogs off from my house because they sneak down here, dump over my garbage bin, and tear garbage all over my yard. I've inquired about it with a couple of deputy sheriffs and I am told there basically isnt anything anyone can do. We dont have animal control out here in the sticks. The deputies could take them to a local vet (where they would prolly be put down if they didnt adopt out quickly) if they could catch them, but that has proved impossible.......Ive tried to catch them 100 times over. Ive called shelters and rescues in my area and they all tell me 1) they are filled to the gills already and 2) they only take in strays (since these dogs technically belong to someone they dont count)

Its really beginning to tick me off.

If they are not on the property they are concidered strays. Try to find/borrow a large live trap and catch them. Make sure the bait the trap so they will go in there. (Canned food works best because of the smell.) It won't hurt the dogs but it is really easy to catch them that way. We sometimes have to use them for cats at school if they get out (I'm a vet tech student). The cats don't mind it much but you have to make sure to check it often because they won't have water in the trap.

[fashion victim]

The only reason the people here mark their livestock is to mark their property. There's no large predators in here like coyotes or wolves or bears or such that could harm big animals.

[this_lil_piggy]

A way to keep coyotes off your property, is to have one or two donkeys. Coyotes are petrified of them because of their fierce kicks and because donkeys will run them down and stomp them to death. We used to be over run with them, and thats why my FIL wound up getting donkeys....we never see coyotes here anymore. I can hear them at night on other peoples property though.

Just a bit of useless info