Where did you get figure from?

[emoxrobot]

On the Cavy Spirit site it says that there is a 1 in 5 chance that a sow will die during pregnancy. I believe that figure, but at another forum there is a particular member who thinks that someone made that figure up just because they are anti-breeding. I was just curious where you got that figure from so I can pass it along.

[CavySpirit]

I'm so glad you asked that question!

Here is the quote on the webpage:

According to Tracy Iverson, ARBA Cavy Judge and President of the ACBA (American Cavy Breeders Association), "... breeding a sow means a 20% chance she will die ..." For the full quote, see below.

Here is the quote 'below:'

JACBA Quote

[FONT=Verdana]Spring 2002, Journal of the American Cavy Breeders Association: [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]"To Show or Not to Show . . . An Age Old Question" by Lysa Grant, Pennsylvania. Page 41. The author is quoting Tracy Iverson about his breeding and showing opinions. Referring to one of his champion cavies, he says, "She is the most beautiful REO (Red-Eyed Orange) that I have ever produced. Why on earth would I stop showing her? I would never risk her life in the breeding pen, since breeding a sow means a 20% chance she will die..."[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]Iverson goes on to talk about using the mother, sisters, aunts and cousins to do the "production" in hopes for another one like her.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana](ARBA is the American Rabbit Breeders Association.)[/FONT]

Mr. Tracy Iverson is a long-time ACBA member and was president at the time of his quote. I don't know who is currently president and don't care. So, as the fearless leader of self-proclaimed, so-called responsible breeders, you would think the breeding cavy community should grant him just a little credence in that he knows what he's talking about.

On the flip side, if ever there was a quote in print that the breeders wish was never published, I think that would be it! They have never, not once, tried to claim it wasn't made, nor deny it publicly or privately to me. Nor was the quote taken out of context nor twisted in any way. My quoting it is absolutely legal as it applies to copyright laws.

And that quote coming from such a credible source of the leader of the breeders is precisely WHY it cannot be challenged or questioned without having the breeders take on each other--something I would dearly love and pay money to see.

[emoxrobot]

Thank you for the information. I will be sure to pass it along to this gentleman who did not seem to think that what you were saying on the Cavy Spirit site was honest. It's sad too because this member is a breeder whose sow just died and her uterus fell out. It didn't seem to bother him very much and even took the time to write a post asking if he should take her to the vet.

[VoodooJoint]

I read that thread and wished I could correct the person that said that the 20% death rate was an exageration from an anti breeding forum.

[cookie_gal]

They're still not believing the statement. Its obvious its true as breeders on the forum keep having sows die....

[CavySpirit]

Mr. Iverson is a commercial breeder. He's bred many hundreds of guinea pigs. He's been around a long time. And you don't get to be the president of an organization without being 'respected' as a leader and having a lot of experience in that field.

These little whiney backyard breeders just want to feel good about themselves.

Of course it's not based on scientific research. Any dumb **** can see that. NO ONE ever claimed it was based on scientific research. And THAT dear friends, is one of the HUGE TRAVESTIES of the completely lame and backwards organization calling itself the ACBA. They've had the ability to be actually doing something good for YEARS--like having membership requirements that actually mean something and enforcement of record-keeping and statistics, not to mention a ton of other things they could be doing.

They could give a rats about really doing anything good. It's all about rosettes and ribbons. It's just a giant social and entertainment/hobby club.

Who cares what the number really is? The FACT REMAINS, that there is a number and it IS significant. What number works for you on 'acceptable losses'? 5%? 10%? 15%? 20%? 25%? 13.754659%? No matter the 'correct, scientifically-based' and ever-changing number, you risk your sow's life. Go ahead and risk it. Don't risk it. You want to turn your pet into breeding stock, there is a chance you will kill her. Period. End of bloody story.

The FACT REMAINS, there are too many guinea pigs on this planet for the homes available. Breeding one means a needle of poison in the belly of another for want of a home. Deny it and rationalize it all you want. That's what happens.

[Slave to the Wheek]

Well. I just HAD to figure out what you were talking about.

[Res Judicata]

Originally Posted by CavySpirit

These little whiney backyard breeders just want to feel good about themselves.

And it's sad no matter what we say, or who we quote, they won't believe us. It's also sad that even when I try to keep it to the facts and simply say to breeders. "You know about 20% of sows die as a result of pregnancy." they go as ballistic on me as if I said "Hey you stupid ******, you're going to kill you sow. You don't deserve to own guinea pigs." which is what I'd really like to say.

My favorite arguments from them are "Yeah, I bet you're stuffing your face with a hamburger while you tell me not to breed." (Um, you obviously know nothing about my dietary habits.) And this from a dog breeder I work with "Well, if you can have as many children as you did and add to the human population, then I can breed my dogs." (I had a choice in the matter, and I'm not going to get tired of my children and dump them off at a shelter. Can you say that about the pups you breed?)

[emoxrobot]

It's getting to the point where I am giving up hope for certain people out there who will never listen to what you say because they are already stuck in their ways and don't want to see what is really going on. I am so ready just to cuss people out on a certain forum even if it is childish. It is hard for me to be nice all the time. After all I am emo (ha ha).

[Aertyn]

*sighs*

emo, sometimes, as hard as it may be, you have to accept that some people will not change either their habits or their mind-set. NO matter what evidence is put in front of them, they will find SOME argument, no matter how absurd it may see, to back up their own opinion/mind-set and just continue on their merry way.

[Slave to the Wheek]

Originally Posted by CavySpirit

Mr. Iverson is a commercial breeder. He's bred many hundreds of guinea pigs. He's been around a long time. And you don't get to be the president of an organization without being 'respected' as a leader and having a lot of experience in that field.

These little whiney backyard breeders just want to feel good about themselves.

Of course it's not based on scientific research. Any dumb **** can see that. NO ONE ever claimed it was based on scientific research. And THAT dear friends, is one of the HUGE TRAVESTIES of the completely lame and backwards organization calling itself the ACBA. They've had the ability to be actually doing something good for YEARS--like having membership requirements that actually mean something and enforcement of record-keeping and statistics, not to mention a ton of other things they could be doing.

They could give a rats about really doing anything good. It's all about rosettes and ribbons. It's just a giant social and entertainment/hobby club.

Who cares what the number really is? The FACT REMAINS, that there is a number and it IS significant. What number works for you on 'acceptable losses'? 5%? 10%? 15%? 20%? 25%? 13.754659%? No matter the 'correct, scientifically-based' and ever-changing number, you risk your sow's life. Go ahead and risk it. Don't risk it. You want to turn your pet into breeding stock, there is a chance you will kill her. Period. End of bloody story.

The FACT REMAINS, there are too many guinea pigs on this planet for the homes available. Breeding one means a needle of poison in the belly of another for want of a home. Deny it and rationalize it all you want. That's what happens.

It's interesting that I also came to this conclusion independently. CHEERS for saying it so succinctly! It would have taken me 6 hours and 4 times as much text to say the exact same thing!!