Breeding tangent from cage safety thread

[MrsHauler]

NOTICE: THIS THREAD HAS BEEN COPIED FROM A CAGE SAFTEY THREAD. If you want to reply to the Cage Safety issue, please go back to that thread. Based on post #20, this thread was copied to Kitchen so that we would not be in a breeder debate in the Cage Safety forum.

Thank you.
The Administrator: Teresa/CavySpirit

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Actually I never followed up with you after one of my purchased cavies died in a C&C cage and I decided not to promote them. THis was an adult cavy that got her head stuck and suffocated in the grids.

Hm, I seem to recall that I did select that I would be happy to take a neutered male or a spayed female, even if it wasn't from the Holister rescue. Perhaps it was in one of the emails that you don't have any longer, as I remember wanting to make it clear that I had no intention on breeding the animal that was to be a friend for Happy. I think in the end you suggested that I take one of my other pigs in as a friend for her, which I did but she died of old age shortly after.

Well, AmandaK,

See, I knew you were a smart cookie.

[spoonyspork]

MrsHauler, how on earth did an adult cavy get her head stuck in a grid? Mine can barely stick their noses through, and the holes are hardly larger than almost any store-bought cage I've seen.

I would comment farther, but... nah.

[Ly&Pigs]

Actually I never followed up with you after one of my purchased cavies died in a C&C cage and I decided not to promote them. THis was an adult cavy that got her head stuck and suffocated in the grids.

I would like to note that this is a very rare occurance. I've heard of probably 2 cases of a guinea pig getting their head stuck in the grids. This is the only case I have heard of that the cavy didn't make it.

[salana]

THis was an adult cavy that got her head stuck and suffocated in the grids.

Really? What was this pig's name?

[LobsterOverlord]

Originally Posted by MrsHauler

Actually I never followed up with you after one of my purchased cavies died in a C&C cage and I decided not to promote them. THis was an adult cavy that got her head stuck and suffocated in the grids.

OK, so how many sows have you seen die from having given birth? And that hasn't made you stop breeding?

John M>2¢hing

[salana]

Also, what date did this pig die? What brand of grids were you using, how much did this pig weigh, and do you have a picture of her?

[CavySpirit]

Actually I never followed up with you after one of my purchased cavies died in a C&C cage and I decided not to promote them. THis was an adult cavy that got her head stuck and suffocated in the grids.

Normal sized-grids, normal on the small side adult cavy with long nose:


The warning about babies, young and very small adults has been on the main page of the site for ages along with what to do to make the cage safe even for those pigs.

Hm, I seem to recall that I did select that I would be happy to take a neutered male or a spayed female, even if it wasn't from the Holister rescue.

Sorry, your recollection is faulty. I have my emails from that time period and your two interactions with the process I put together at that time, which were fine. You did make it clear that you 'said' you wouldn't breed a rescue pig. I never doubted that you would if you said you wouldn't. That was never the point. Point was, we didn't need to send any pigs to any breeders because they were all spoken for by non-breeding adopters.

[salana]

I asked about the grid brand she used because I believe there's a brand of grids with wider spacing. The normal ones in the US (Creative Cubes and the like) are 14" with 9 openings, so the openings are only a little more than 1" wide. I doubt any adult guinea pig of normal size could get more than the tip of their nose and mouth through a grid.

The majority of people we have seen claiming that guinea pigs get stuck in the grids do not have any details to verify this; it is usually "someone I know" or "someone my friend knows". I want to get to the source of this. If the source is this pig of AmandaK's, I want to know the date, the brand of grids, the name of the pig, and a picture of her. I mean, sure, she could lie, but what would be her purpose for doing that? Who is so sad that they would manufacture a lie to discredit guinea pig cages?

[MrsHauler]

Salana, I believed the family that purchased the sow from me called her Pebbles, I didn't record the date of death, I just remember it was in early 05. No I don't have a weight on her, nor do I have any other records as she wasn't in my ownership at the time. I looked at my records and she was just shy of 6 months when she was killed by the grids. They came home to find her with her head through a grid and stone cold dead. THey had only been gone for the day at work. No I don't have the grid name either.

I have also stopped encouraging people allow their cavies to have floor time as another pig was crushed when a futon crashed onto her. They had no previous knowledge that there was a problem with the frame and there was not anyone on it at the time. She was being supervised at the time.

I do encourage people to make cages out of coroplast with higher sides to contain the cavies.

Sorry if this doesn't answer your questions to your satisfaction, I had no idea that at some point I would be subject to an inquisition !

Lobsteroverlord, I have only had two sows die from complications in pregnancy/delivery. Pretty good ratio considering I have roughly 30 litters in a year and I have been breeding this many litters for 4+ years.

[PiggieMom]

Originally Posted by MrsHauler

Lobsteroverlord, I have only had two sows die from complications in pregnancy/delivery. Pretty good ratio considering I have roughly 30 litters in a year and I have been breeding this many litters for 4+ years.

Only two? That's two too many for me.

[salana]

Surely the benefits of larger cages and exercise time outweigh the dangers of specific situations.

It does sound like this pig may have needed a babyproofed cage, and I believe there is a larger brand of grids sold in Canada. There's a warning against those on the site, I believe, as well as plenty of instructions to babyproof.

And could you not advise people to create a floortime area without large pieces of furniture for the cavies to hide under? I mean, we already advise to block off areas that are dangerous, after all.

Still, I have to wonder why you have stopped advocating C&C cages and floortime after only one death from each. How many breeding deaths would be unacceptable to the same extent, to you?

[stipma]

The grids here are the same size as the ones in the US.

[Ly&Pigs]

The fact of the matter is that when people start "stating" that their or someone elses guinea pig has died as a direct result of the grids used to make C&C's is that we need as much info as possible. If there is any possibilty of C&C's being "unsafe" than we need to know the type of info that Salana has asked to be provided. The more info a person can provide gives us a better idea of cage safety. It's not an "inquisition" as you so put it, but a safety issue in my eyes.

I would personally never discourage people giving floortime. Accidents can and do happen and that is what that was, an accident. Pigs need exercise and to limit them to no floortime and only cage time and laptime does not fully meet their exercise requirements and does not give them exploration time as well.

[LobsterOverlord]

Originally Posted by salana

How many breeding deaths would be unacceptable to the same extent, to you?

Thank you salana for taking the point I was trying to make and putting it into a question form so that they can understand it better.

John M.>

[Jennicat]

Wait, maybe I'm misunderstanding... you've had double the deaths from breeding as you've had from using C&C cages, and you're discouraging people from using the C&C cages, but you're still breeding?

[CavySpirit]

Originally Posted by stipma

The grids here are the same size as the ones in the US.

Well then, it could very easily have been the wrong sized grids because both sizes are found in the US as well. It is not a US vs. Canada or any other country issue. Different stores stock different manufacturers' products--all over the world. Last time I checked, most of the grids were manufactured in Korea. AND even the same manufacturer could decide to change the specs overnight. That is why the measurements of the grids are front and center on the home page of the site along with the warning in red of what sizes not to use.