Why can't breeders breed and rescue?

[seagirl96]

I have to jump in again & tell Applelady that education works. In this country, in my parents generation, say 1940s, most people did not spay or neuter their pets. Drowning unwanted puppies or kittens in a sack was not uncommon. People have changed that. You can't take your dog out back and shoot it just because you decide to. Now there are laws and consequences. Public opinion plays a big part in the way animals are treated. Animals have more rights now and this can be improved upon. Educate someone. Let them know what is right & what is wrong.

I walked up to three young people looking for a chinchilla in Petsmart. I was buying dog food so please don't yell.) I told them that they could find chinchilla rescues on line. They were thrilled because they didn't know! We can & do make a difference.

[frescchurch]

Interesting issue.
The only way a breeder could call himself "reputable" is if they are breeding to better the species. For example, if they are breeding cavies to improve/get rid of genetic health conditions or breeding "show" piggies, as most pet-store rescue piggies wouldn't fit show standards. Guinea pig shows are a huge hobby/ way of life for many people, so there is in this case some need for carefully bred guineas. On the side, breeders could offer homes for rescue cavies for people who are not looking for a "show-quality" pig.
In this case, I could see someone calling themselves both a breeder and a rescue, as long as they are educating new owners about pet guinea pigs so that the homes are permanent. Otherwise like you all said, breeding will just create a need for more rescue.

[seagirl96]

Here is a quote from an ad from a breeder with a few extra pigs. "A couple of breeding age sows- $10 each (showable but better as moms-
warning they have been in a communal cage and are a little fur-chewed
which is why they are not more expensive)." I'm sorry but I thought the purpose of a rescue is to give these animals a better life in a permanent HOME. As long as breeders think "a little fur chewed" is OK because of who knows how many piggies in how small a cage, they don't have the mentality to rescue.

[Ly&Pigs]

or breeding "show" piggies, as most pet-store rescue piggies wouldn't fit show standards.

I'd like to know how breeding pigs for looks would constitute a "reputable" breeder. Showing pigs is for the benefit of the owner, not for the benefit of the pigs themselves.

Guinea pig shows are a huge hobby/ way of life for many people, so there is in this case some need for carefully bred guineas.

You clearly don't see the big picture. This site is very anti-showing.

[daftscotslass]

Breeding for looks also does not equal breeding for health. Just look at satins and osteodystrophy.

[WHEEKness]

It seems to me that a breeder/rescue is a natural transition point from breeder to full-time rescue. I'm curious how those of you here who used to breed made the transition from breeder to rescuer/advocate?

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Yes, they have. There are a few notable ones on GL. The problem area is breeders who "rescue". And being both at the same.

[mommyoffive]

In reality...everyone has different viewpoints on issues. There are some people on this board who are VERY anti-breeding, but there is some who think breeding is ok in certain circumstances. There are some people who absoulutly HATE petstores, but there are some people (like me) who work at a petstore. No one is ever going to agree something because of personal views. There is one thing that we ALL can agree on here though, and that is that we love our guinea pigs!!!

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by mommyoffive

There is one thing that we ALL can agree on here though, and that is that we love our guinea pigs!!!

Of course everyone here (or most everyone) loves their pets.

The difference is that there are also many here that also love and care about all of the animals dying and suffering due to breeders, petshops and the owners that buy an animal and view it as a "thing". We love and care about those unknown animals and want to help them, and future generations from suffering.

It's easy to love an animal you know and want to keep it from harm and insure it's health and happiness. It's a much bigger thing to put yourself on the line to try to help all the animals you don't know.

I guess the question that needs to be asked is "Do you love enough?"

It's a question that I don't need an answer to. Either you do love and care enough to step up and do all you can to protect all animals (and that includes not supporting an industry that aids the problem) or you don't care enough and are willing to allow the problems to perpetuate.

[debbiejo2007]

you soooo CAN do both!! i do. my family is always taking in animals dogs, cats and all kinds of others. I personally take in horses and rabbits because thats what I have and love. Well I have a dog and cat too but those rescuse are basically taken care of my my mom and sisters. I also breed dutch and lionheads. But I take great pride in my animals and they are pets first and foremost!! I also show my rabbits as well as my horses. Now the breeders who are out there to mass produce animals or any sort or the ones who are trying to make money by breeding yeah I agree that they couldn't rescue, but someone who loves their animals and actually cares about them YES the can rescue and breed.

[seagirl96]

Why do you breed rabbits? From what I have seen, you could have a hundred rabbits this week just by asking. I suppose you know where every rabbit you have produced is living right this minute and under what conditions? And where are their offspring?

[debbiejo2007]

i breed rabbits because i want to better the breeds and learn about things having to do with rabbits and genetics and i want to show them. actually i do know where all my rabbits offspring are because i stay in contact with everyone i do business with and i dont over breed. my rabbits are pets first as i have always said.

[daftscotslass]

Originally Posted by debbiejo2007

i do business with

That says it all. Enough said.

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by debbiejo2007

i dont over breed.

No? So that's why you have at least 7 rabbits for sale at the moment?

A "responsible" breeder has homes lined up ahead of time. You my dear, seem like just another breeder, churning out animals, just like so many others.

If you wanted to impress anyone you failed.

[this_lil_piggy]

If you actively breed rabbits, there is no way in h### you will be able to monitor each and every home that your animals go to for the life of those animals. If you think otherwise you are quite naive.

Regardless of anything else, the main point is for each of your off spring that you are placing into homes you are preventing a rescue/shelter pig from going to a permanent home, possibly even indirectly causing them to be euthanized due to lack of space.
If you want to do the right thing separate your rabbits, and direct your "customers" to adoption centers. Otherwise, don't pat yourself on the back.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

If someone wants more pigs, then they can adopt them. They don't need to breed to have more pigs. It kills me when I hear people want to have a litter or two because all their neighbors and friends want pigs when there are hundreds of homeless pigs in the area. If they didn't then wouldn't they have them already or couldn't they find some to adopt?

Originally Posted by catzeye21138

Doesn't it kind of depend on if they plan on keeping the pups or not? If they just put them up for adoption I think that they are breeding for the wrong reason. Maybe someone should have told them that breedin gand just dumping the babies is really wrong and if thats they only reason they are doing it then they shouldn't. I dunno if this post is still relavent or not so sorry if it isn't.

[Lakota]

I actually used to work for a breeder who worked in rescue too. She bred dachshunds (mostly she tried to improve type and personality) but rescued pit bull mixes and other dogs used in dog fighting from the pound and helped improve their negative image. She also assisted in a local golden retriever rescue by offering a discount in broading for those dogs before they went to foster homes. She also took in other owner give-ups regardless of breed. Every time people say breeders do nothing to help in rescues I think of her because she did just about everything, often at her own expense.

I've heard that some other breeders do that. In my labrador book it lists some of the top breeders, and one family of breeders regularly took in strays that were dumped around their home in the country. One of the hunting associations in my area also helps place homeless dogs in addition to listing the hunters who breed their dogs. Not to mention that nearly all breed clubs in the AKC have their own breed rescues.

Perhaps part of the problem is that some people do not realize that great dogs and other animals are available at rescues. They think all of them have some sort of behaviourial problem or something. I can relate. My family's first dog came from a rescue, and he was awful! He was a sweet boy and we loved him, but it was impossible to train him. In comparsion our second dog came from a breeder, and she was so easy to train and live with. If some people have negative experiences with shelter dogs, they are less likely to adopt from the pound.



I don't know if it's the same with guinea pigs though. Certainly my area's PetSmart regularly houses rabbits from rescues in addition to occansionally having some from breeders.

[VoodooJoint]

With dog breeding a breeder is not truly considered "responsible" unless they also do rescue. It's "easier" for dog breeders because they have the rescues they take in spayed/neutered and usually have a waiting list for people waiting for puppies they bred and sometimes those people are willing to take a rescue instead.

Small animal breeder/rescuers normally don't have their rescues spayed/neutered, do not do adequate home checks and sometimes even add the rescued pigs to their breeding program.

I know a few dog breeders that I would actually deem responsible. They only breed about one liter every year or three (and spend a lot of time truly considering and researching the outcome of their breeding choice) and take in more rescues that they vet treat and spay/neuter then pups they breed. They also spay/neuter all non-show quality pups and only sell show quality (if they sell them at all) to truly responsible and knowledgeable people that will actively show the dog to see if it's a good representation of it's breed as well as get all the health checks before they even consider the possibility of breeding it.

I know of no small animal breeders that take these amounts of precautions to insure that unsuitable animals are not bred and few that do any kind of adequate home check. Most often they sell to anyone who shows up at their sale bin at shows, at their caviary (shed) or they sell them to petshops.

I'm not saying that I agree with dog breeding. At this time, with all the homeless animals, it all seems rather ridiculous to me but if I have to categorize between responsible/irresponsible I am able to make that call through how the breeder goes about their breeding program.

I have NEVER run across a small animal breeder that met all of the criteria of "responsible".

[Lakota]

Originally Posted by VoodooJoint

Small animal breeder/rescuers normally don't have their rescues spayed/neutered, do not do adequate home checks and sometimes even add the rescued pigs to their breeding program.

Hopefully that will change. I know my area's rabbit rescue has come a long way. Very few pet stores even sell rabbits now because of them. All of these rescue rabbits are spayed before being placed in their new homes. I hope a similar change will happen with other small animals.

I know of no small animal breeders that take these amounts of precautions to insure that unsuitable animals are not bred and few that do any kind of adequate home check.....

I have NEVER run across a small animal breeder that met all of the criteria of "responsible".

I actually know of one rat breeder who is responsible about her rats. Actually I couldn't even call her a breeder because she has only offered one of her rats once for stud service thrus far! At any rate she took on 3 of the babies and helped find good homes for the rest. She made sure her boy was healthy and that so was his mate before breeding.

And she really spoils her rats! Each one has its own cage with tons of toys and is allowed to free time out of the cage every day. This person becomes devasted whenever one of her babies dies of old age.

Perhaps there is hope for other small animals then.


Thank you for taking the time to explain the situation with small animal rescue. I'm not as familiar with them... except for rabbit rescue. I'm sorry if my previous post was pointless then.

[seagirl96]

I have talked with one responsible breeder here in my town. She has a waiting list for her pups, breeds for temperament and health and has a three page interview form. A buyer must have a fenced yard of a certain minimum size, be willing for her to do a home visit, gets no papers until they can prove spaying or neutering has occurred and must agree that if they give up their dog, it will go back to her. She may sell one puppy a year for show that is not neutered or she may not sell any that year.

Oh, and yes, she has a couple of rescue dogs and will rehome any golden that needs help. That's responsible.