What kind of chinese food are you REALLY eating?

[Hansel]

This is a horrible article I found on Yahoo.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...0m3rzf5_photo0

So much for mans best friend

[zambonigirl]

Snopes.com had an article a while back about St. Bernards that are raised in China specifically for food. Apparently, they abuse them to get their adrenaline up just before slaughter because it supposedly makes the meat taste better. Bears are also abused in China; they are kept as pets on chains and hurt quite often. The dogs almost have it better, at least they are put out of their misery.

I think that the SPCA or some other group has a fund to buy animals from China so that they aren't abused, I wonder if it's still going on?

[Sabriel]

Maybe while they are at it they can go after North American groups that abuse cows chickens and pigs, eh?

Livestock isn't treated much better over here. Take a look around the veg section of this forum. Many of the links at the top list things just as horrible or worse then the link in this thread.

[laura220]

It's true they try to make death as painful as possible to get the adrenaline going. Those dogs live lives of hell. Sometimes they're even stolen family pets. Dogs and cats used in the fur industry live(if you can call it that) similar lives.

[zambonigirl]

Originally Posted by Sabriel

Maybe while they are at it they can go after North American groups that abuse cows chickens and pigs, eh?

Livestock isn't treated much better over here. Take a look around the veg section of this forum. Many of the links at the top list things just as horrible or worse then the link in this thread.

The SPCA is a national organization. They were among the first respondents in New Orleans after the hurricane. They helped animals after the recent tsunami. Supporting the SPCA means helping animals all over the world, not just in my own backyard. The world is a very large place, and North America covers just a small portion. Yes, we have problems here, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the world does not exist.

[Susan9608]

Yes, we have problems here, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the world does not exist.

Why should these animals in China rate more help than our animals here at home? Is it because the Chinese are abusing and eating dogs and cats, instead of pigs, cows, and chickens? Nice to know that dogs and cats are worth more ... feel more ... and are more deserving of protection than cows, pigs, and chickens.

[zambonigirl]

Originally Posted by Susan9608

Why should these animals in China rate more help than our animals here at home? Is it because the Chinese are abusing and eating dogs and cats, instead of pigs, cows, and chickens? Nice to know that dogs and cats are worth more ... feel more ... and are more deserving of protection than cows, pigs, and chickens.

I did not say that at all, and that is a very paltry attempt to put words in my mouth. I said that we cannot simply ignore the rest of the world in order to address only the concerns of our own country. You can have a limited view of the world if you like, that is your business. I tend to have a much larger perspective, and can care about many things at once, including my own country.

By the way, I seem to remember you posting on the thread about guinea pigs in England. So, if I go by your logic, you should not be posting about the horrible conditions of the guinea pigs in England, only the ones in America. Nice try. It doesn't fly.

[zambonigirl]

Originally Posted by zambonigirl

I did not say that at all, and that is a very paltry attempt to put words in my mouth. I said that we cannot simply ignore the rest of the world in order to address only the concerns of our own country. You can have a limited view of the world if you like, that is your business. I tend to have a much larger perspective, and can care about many things at once, including my own country.

I just want to clarify this sentence-I didn't realize it came off so harsh until I walked away and re-read it.

It is seriously none of my business if someone wishes to care about only the animals in their own backyards, or if they want to care about the entire world. I'm just glad if you care about something. What I take umbrage to is being accused of not feeling for the animals in my country because I have the audacity to care about the entire world, particularly if the person accusing me has posted in a thread regarding animals in another country.

[i love piggies]

There was quite a stink over here in Australia a year or 2 back about chinesse food. Some of the food was way too many days old and the meat scaps were rinsed and re-used. But the most alarming thing is that a few of our top restaurants use domestic animals as meat. There was one in my birth town. It used pidgeons for chicken and they also had several cats and dogs in the back lot. It was quite obvious what was going on. One time we were walking by and could here what sounded like a dog in hell. Needless to say they were shut down.
It's been going on for years, I think it's down right wrong.
Also in my birth town there was some weird old guy coming along in the middle of the night and taking people's cats skin. Yes thats right, he would skin the cats on your front yard and leave the carcass for you to enjoy when you wake up. One day this old guy came up and was asking who owned the pure white cat(mine) he was weird so she stayed inside.
You can never be too safe.

There is a zoo over here, called the mogo zoo. They rescue animals from cruelty. Thats how they have a zoo. it's a really nice place. I find it quite emotional .

[Sabriel]

Yes, we have problems here, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the world does not exist.

I just find it funny that again and again that I see people posting about the atrocity of eating guinea pigs, dogs and cats, then go on to have a steak for dinner. I don't see the difference. An animal is an animal. They all have feelings and thoughts and they can all feel pain. What makes a dog so much more special then a cow? Both are being tortured for food in this instance. So to me the outrage should be that people are torturing and eating animals in general, not the *gasp* someone is eating a dog.

[Access]

I think that one thing that people overlook is that by far, the primary diet in China is vegetables. Compared to the western world, the amount of meat consumed per person is relatively small. When I visit China whether it is the PRC or the ROC I will just go without meat as they do not remove the bones from their meat and most meals, if they do include a portion of meat, it is very small. For people that love the taste of meat, they have a type of baked tofu (much different than the tofu here) that tastes _better_ than the meat over there. The PRC has huge problems when it comes to human rights, but when it comes to how animals are treated in particular they are no worse or better off than the rest-of-world. Just that less of them in particular are consumed per person as meat it is not a big dietary requirement like in the western world.

Every region has it's local pecularities, in many parts of the world goat is considered a delicacy. In other parts horses or even cavies are consumed. No doubt the Chinese mentality when it comes to animals is different, a large part of that is due just to the culture and the pre-industrial past. For instance-

I remember a few years back in one province of the PRC there was a mass slaughter of civet cats (10,000+) in an attempt to stave off a 'feline flu' epidemic. These cats are kept primarily as house pets (for companship, etc.) and only eaten in rare cases. They resemble a normal housecat except a bit larger. Families that were keeping them as pets had to turn in their cats which were then euthenized by the government. Imagine the outcry if such a thing were to be carried out in the USA or Canada, even if the threat of a flu epidemic were real. In this way, Chinese live by a 'people first' mentality where no animal is more important than a person. Whereas here we live with a 'family pet' mentality that teaches that pets are members of the family, and they should be treated as such (at least, that's how 'good' pet owners live). Even at the risk of an epidemic, if the government were to ask families to turn in their pet cats, dogs, birds, etc. to be euthenized, a lot of people would not comply and one can be assured the outcry would be significant.

To people who don't like it, the best someone like me (who lives somewhere between both cultures) can say is that different cultures are different and as long as it is nonthreatening you just 'deal with it' and move on. The Chinese don't hate americans, nor threaten them, if anything they are very friendly and accepting people. For the west, there is no need to meddle in/with China; it becomes a non-issue when you compare China to the other nations / peoples who really are hostile / hateful and a threat towards the rest-of-world. As much as possible, nations and peoples need to be left to deal with their problems internally. It is one thing to give help when asked for, but it is another to try to meddle, especially since the problem in the west is much much worse.

Sorry about the rant, I just started typing and couldn't stop

[Percy's Mom]

Originally Posted by Access

Sorry about the rant, I just started typing and couldn't stop

Thank you for your "rant". I was thinking that myself and couldn't put it into words properly. You did it beautifully.

[Maggie]

I believe in india, or some asian country they were selling sun bears (forget their real name, but they're commonly called sun bears) for soup, but some travelers bought him and put him in a really nice home at a zoo.

But in Asia, their culture is quite the opposite of most of ours, and they see things differently. They've been living like this for thousands of years. And you guys think killing dogs is disgusting, how is it more disgusting than killing a chicken? They're both animals.
I'm not saying it's right, it's quite the opposite if not even more than that.

[zambonigirl]

Originally Posted by Sabriel

I just find it funny that again and again that I see people posting about the atrocity of eating guinea pigs, dogs and cats, then go on to have a steak for dinner. I don't see the difference. An animal is an animal. They all have feelings and thoughts and they can all feel pain. What makes a dog so much more special then a cow? Both are being tortured for food in this instance. So to me the outrage should be that people are torturing and eating animals in general, not the *gasp* someone is eating a dog.

1. You have no idea what anyone here eats, unless if they just come out and say that they're a vegetarian. Your argument is moot. Not once did I say that I am a vegetarian or a meat eater. Not once did I say that I think it's okay to eat a cow but not a dog. No one else has said that either. Why are you bringing it up? The only thing that I said at all that pertained to eating a dog was that the Chinese people breed St. Bernards and then just before slaughter, they abuse them and beat them and make them angry because they think it makes them taste better. I think that the practice is abhorrent. Were I to list everything that I find abhorrent, this thread would be very long indeed. I kept to the topic. You have not.

2. Expressing outrage at said act does not negate the torture and abuse that other animals go through. By your logic, if I were to comment on how horrible it must be for a child to be raped, then I would be saying that it's not terrible for a woman or man to be raped. The statement that rape is horrible would be more encompassing, but if it were a topic regarding children being raped, it would be silly for me to post and decry the specific topic of child molestation in favor of a broader subject. However, I would have the ability to start a topic of my own regarding that subject if I wished. I do not wish to start a new topic about the meat industry in general, there are already several over at the Vegetarian area on this board.

3. This thread was started by someone who specifically wanted to show this particular dog and bring up this particular subject. This topic is somewhat exclusionary as it pertains to eating dogs, but not once has anyone said that it's okay to eat a cow, but not a dog.

[Sabriel]

The point is, why does it have shock value? Why do you find it shocking that dogs are being beaten? Why not just say all animal abuse is wrong? So they eat dogs in China? We find it weird. I am sure people in India find it weird that we eat cows. I don't see why this is shocking.

And where did I ever single you out for eating or not eating meat? I find these threads in general up there with the "Oh my, there are pictures of people eating guinea pigs" threads. I am generally asking the question "Why do people find this thread shocking?" I am not specifically pointing the finger at you. The typical North American eats cows, pigs and chickens. The typical North American would find that photo shocking. If you are the typical North American then yes, I am wondering why you find it shocking. If not, you need not apply.

That's why I didn't address you directly, but instead make a general statement. I have no clue where you stand. It's not really relavent to what I am trying to convey.

[zambonigirl]

Originally Posted by Sabriel

That's why I didn't address you directly, but instead make a general statement. I have no clue where you stand. It's not really relavent to what I am trying to convey.

*shrug* You replied directly to something I said. How can I not convey that as something directed towards me? Regardless of that, I was promised lively debates in this part of the forum, and I want my money's worth. I like to debate. I like to hear other people's opinions and how they arrive at their conclusions and beliefs.

As for the abuse, I find all abuse abhorrent. I was under the impression that this thread was specifically regarding using dogs as meat, not a general "abuse is bad" thread (see point 2). It just seems like your response says that I should not think that animal abuse is shocking simply because it is shocking. I enjoy circular logic as much as the next person (read: not much), but I don't see why I shouldn't care simply because I am already aware of the problems with the meat industry. Why should I not find it shocking? If the Hansel had posted pictures of cows or sheep or turtles, I would still have said that I found it shocking, and it would still sadden me. Being aware of animal abuse does not make one immune to it. At least, I hope it doesn't.