Cropping of Dogs Ears and Tails

[stubblychin]

Hi Everybody,

I was wondering what everyone's stance here is on the cropping of dog's ears and tails?
I ask because I frequently visit Dogster.com (to look at the puppy pics, I'm a sap I know!) and I have been disappointed by the site lately when I have come across pictures of Dobermans with the ears bandaged post cropping. I am British and have previously owned Dobermans. The ear cropping practice has never really been used here so I have never actually seen a dog with cropped ears in reality, so the practice confuses me, especially as Doberman ears are the softest, silkiest things I've ever stroked. Gladly tail cropping is becoming somewhat less prevalent here. I have looked somewhat into the history of the practice of ear cropping and found it is simply done to make them look more "aggressive" which angers me and is also a requirement in American and other countires dog shows.
I ask here because I know a lot of you are from America (where ear cropping seems to be the most prevalant) so may be closer to the practice, and also because I am thinking of emailing my distaste to dogster.com. I also appreciate everybodies views here as I know you are all a great bunch!

My opinion as you may have guessed is that it is a barbaric disfigurement committed on young and beautiful dogs for purely aesthetic reasons. It is not relavent to our modern day world, and has never really been. Dobermans and other dogs who have their ears cropped (such as pitbulls) have enough teeth and muscle to be effective enough guard dogs without the need for pointy ears! Raaaaaargh!

Sorry this has turned into a rant!

Mods this may be a subject for the kitchen, and if so please move it for me? Thanks is advance.

Sorry for length!

[Inrun]

I know that the docking of horses tails has been outlawed in many countries. It was done in the past for asthetics and as well so that the horses tails wouldn't get caught up in the traces of carriages/wagons and create problems. However, fancy braiding and proper management can take care of this as well.
There are many things like this in the pet world that happen and are unsavory.
To me declawing cats is extremely cruel because in my understanding of things they have to take out part of the bone of the foot to take out a cats claw, and it's quite painful. (frankly, though i'm not a cat person, if you're going to get a cat, you should expect it to act like a cat, not expect it to never scratch anything.)
I know there are a lot of other things in the horse world that continues to bother me today. Like the scouring of gaited horses feet to make them step higher. By burning or acid, or by actually cutting into the flesh of the hoof. It's illegal, but it's sickening how many people actually get away with it. As well, the breaking of some horses tails to get the proper carriage wanted, and also denerving said tails to get them to lie flat (either that or injections of relaxants so the horse won't swish).

[VoodooJoint]

Don't even get me started on this cruel practice!

I own a Great Dane, I used to have 2 but my big male died a couple of years ago. Neither of their ears are/were cropped. They have big floppy, full-of-personality ears because I would never be so cruel to an animal. Cutting off a bit of an animal simply to "improve" it's looks is barbaric.

Yet, I often getting people commenting on how much better they would look if I had their ears done. These people have no clue as to how rude they are being. In fact years ago while walking my dogs in the French Quarter I had a man and his wife approach to admire and pet my Danes. The man started in on how they "look wierd" and I should have had their ears done. I replied that he was being very rude and how I would never be so rude as to tell him his wife needed a nose job. (wifey got a bit upset).

I have seen way to many beautiful, outgoing pups turn scared and introverted by the practice of ear cropping.

As bad is tail docking. Most BYB dog breeders who breed dogs that get their tails docked do the job themselves with a tightly wrapped rubberband.

I worked for a bad vet years ago that removed tails and dewclaws on pups without anesthetic.

Ug! I could go on and on. This is a battle I have been fighting locally and nationally for over 8 years. Places in Europe have banned the practice (at least of ear cropping) but here in America our "freedom" is so important that we need the freedom to mutilate animals legally.

[Funnygpigs]

Well, I know that some dog’s ears and tails were cropped in history, because they interfered with their job performance. Today, there is no reason (not that it was then either), to crop them except for looks! I am very against this practice and find it disgusting! Poor, Poor, little doggies. Being mutilated for a certain "look."

[font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font]

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by Funnygpigs

Well, I know that some dog’s ears and tails were cropped in history, because they interfered with their job performance.

Actually why they crop ears and dock tails has little rhyme or reason.

Let's take a look at tail docking.

Terriers - Jack Russle, Westminster, Scottich, etc.. have their tails docked. It makes little "work" sense to do so. I have heard the explaination that they are docked to provide a better handle to pull the animal out of a hole it's chased vermin in. YET daschunds, that are also vermin catching dogs, do not have their tails docked. It also makes more sense to have a longer "handle".The biggest fact about terriers is that their tails curl up and over their bodies. Therefore making them less attractive to "macho sensabilities" a short straight tail is more "butch".

Water dogs - Weimereiners, Poodles, etc.. have their tails docked. The claim is that the shorter tail makes a better rudder. Labrador Retrievers and Goldens are also water dogs that use their tails as rudders yet their tails are left intact.

Ear Cropping - Most dogs that have their ears cropped were used in Blood sports at one time (some still are). Great Danes were used to hunt wild pigs. The cropped ears supposedly stood less risk of injury from the tusks. The same type of reasoning is behind Boxers and other "ear cropping" breeds.

Other breeds it's supposedly to keep their ears from getting caught on thorns and branches. Yet, there are plenty of other hunting dogs whose ears are left intact, like retreivers and pointers.

Pit Bulls get their ears mostly chopped off to offer less of a griping place when pitted against another dog.

Rarely does cutting off a dog's tail or ears make it more useful or proficiant in a work environment. In fact cropping of ears causes more of a risk of ear infections. Dog's with upright ears have natural guard hairs in the ear canal to keep debris out. Dogs with folded ears have very soft, useless guard hairs that do not do the job. The ear fold is what keeps debris out. If you remove the fold debris can enter as the guard hairs are not rigid enough to keep debris out.

[clover-crystal]

I personally do not agree with the docking of tails and ears as it is purely cosmetic to do so.

[daftscotslass]

I completely agree with everything said above. Evolution has put their ears and tails there for a reason, and who are we to mess around with nature?

[zakfoxmom]

Originally Posted by voodoojoint

...I own a Great Dane...

Off topic: I love Great Dane's! My sister dogsat for two many years ago and they were the most loving dogs! They would come over and just lean on me and almost knock me over and they loved to try and sit on my lap!

[Alicemcmallis]

My opinion as you may have guessed is that it is a barbaric disfigurement committed on young and beautiful dogs for purely aesthetic reasons. It is not relavent to our modern day world, and has never really been.

That's exactly how I feel. It should be outlawed.

[Funnygpigs]

Originally Posted by voodoojoint

Actually why they crop ears and dock tails has little rhyme or reason.

I totaly agree. Allot of things done in history were done out of superstition and beleif. I just merly was giving a little reason WHY people docked tails in history. I did not say it was a good reason, or even made sense!

[font=Verdana][size=2]History of docking and cropping[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]Originally, most docking was done for practical purposes. For example, a large horse used for hauling large loads might have its tail docked to prevent it from becoming entangled in tow ropes or harnesses; without docking, it could be dangerous to the horse and inconvenient to the owner to tie up the horse's tail for every use.[/size][/font]



[font=Verdana][size=2]The tradition of docking dogs originates in the old Roman empire where worms in the tail of the dog were thought to cause rabies. This belief led to the tradition of cutting off the tail as a preventive measure.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]Some hunting dogs originally had tails docked to prevent them from becoming tangled in undergrowth or similar reasons.[/size][/font]
http://dogsobediencetraining.com/dog...g_cropping.htm

You also forgot my part of the quote ,"Today, there is no reason (not that it was then either)"---Just for clarification!

[fourbwabbys]

That's just plain mean. To delibritely (sp) hurt your own pet to make them look better? They act like their pet's just an accessory.

I replied that he was being very rude and how I would never be so rude as to tell him his wife needed a nose job. (wifey got a bit upset).

Haha VJ, I would have said the same thing.

[lilchris_28]

The man started in on how they "look wierd" and I should have had their ears done. I replied that he was being very rude and how I would never be so rude as to tell him his wife needed a nose job.

You go! I probably would've just hit him in his nose and told him now he looks weird. What you said was probably better though and definitely more brilliant.

Ear cropping is just another one of those subjects that pisses me off. People who get their Dobermans and Boxers and Pit Bulls ears cropped are just doing so to make their dog look "tough". They are the people who are sending bad messages about those breeds. They're great dogs if they are raised by people who know what they are doing with dogs. When I worked at the vet, there was a couple who brought their young pit bull puppy in to have his ears cropped. During the surgery, the vet nicked a vessel and the puppy died. What a waste of a life. Two weeks later, the idiots came back with another pit puppy and had his ears done. GRR!

As far as tail docking, I'm neither for or against it persay. One of the things I love so much about Boxers and Rotts are their little butts and stubs that go 2000 WPM (wags per minute). However, I've seen both Rotts and Boxers with tails and they looked just fine. I actually didn't even notice the fact that the Boxer had a tail until the owners said something about it. I've also seen yorkies and schnauzers with tails and I loved it. It gives them even more personality. I really think it's stupid to dock their tails. That having been said, I'm mainly concerned on how it is done. If it's done at home by the breeder and/or without anesthetic I think it's cruel and extremely unneccessary. As far as doing it, even with anesthetic, I try to think in terms of, if I had a tail, I wouldn't want someone chopping it off.

[smoot]

I think the first step to making people stop these barbaric practices is to change the breed standards for dog shows. If ear cropping and tail docking were considered "flaws", a lot less people would do it. Make it mandatory that all showing dogs be intact (besides neutering) and people's opinions will change.

Both ear and tail docking freak me out, but more so tail docking because the dog's tail is part of his spine. At least the ears are made of soft tissues. That's why declawing freaks me out - the cat's fingertips are cut off, not just it's nails.

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by smoot

I think the first step to making people stop these barbaric practices is to change the breed standards for dog shows. If ear cropping and tail docking were considered "flaws", a lot less people would do it.

The groups I work with have been trying that route for years. Unfortunatly the AKC is run by a bunch of morons who aren't going to change their views any time soon.

[Marlania]

I prefer the natural look, and I don't see the point in cropping ears or docking tails, especially for something as lame as doggie cosmetics. On that same line, I don't declaw my cats, especially since I've seen declawings done in person, and there's something sick about taking a sterilized nail clipper and removing the claw all the way up to the meaty, knuckly part of the paw. Sorry, that description made me cringe too. Like someone said earlier...if you have a cat, you have to expect it to act like a cat. Personally, my two cats do not scratch on furniture, although the kitten has discovered his new ability to climb curtains. Ugh...kittenhood . I also don't like to see dewclaws removed, although I've seen a rescue dog with back dewclaws, and the poor girl got on of them stuck on everything. Because of that, it stayed infected and had to be removed. That I totally understand. My lab doesn't have dew claws, but we adopted him at 1 1/2 years old, so who knows his history before then. My mutt has his, but I secretely wish they could disappear when I wake up one morning. I think I get scratched by those two claws more than anything else because he paws at me all the time. That little paw thing was cute enough to spring him from the pound, but I didn't think he'd carry it THAT far.

[oologahyoko]

I don't like the thought of cropping ears and tails of dogs. But there are a few certain breeds of dog where their tails are easily breakable and I believe that if the docking is done when they are very very young by a professional it is alright.