Cropping of Dogs Ears and Tails

[salana]

I doubt circumcision has ever done any irrevocable psychologic or physiologic damage

I don't know if you're a regular reader of Savage Love, but a couple of months ago, there was a letter from a man who had lost the entire head of his penis in a botched circumcision. This severely affected him sexually and his embarrassment about it was so great that he wasn't really able to get into a good relationship with an understanding partner.

There are also stories of "oops, we slipped" that take off the whole penis. Sometimes they tried to cover up by doing the full gender reassignment process: http://www.infocirc.org/rollston.htm And other complications: http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ...r/horror.shtml

[Sabriel]

Sometimes they tried to cover up by doing the full gender reassignment process: http://www.infocirc.org/rollston.htm

They did a Law and Order SVU episode on that. It still didn't seem to sway my husband that much.

What is the percentage of a botched procedure compared to ones that have no lasting damage?

Maybe I'll get lucky and only have girls so it will never be a problem

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by salana

I don't know if you're a regular reader of Savage Love, but a couple of months ago, there was a letter from a man who had lost the entire head of his penis in a botched circumcision. This severely affected him sexually and his embarrassment about it was so great that he wasn't really able to get into a good relationship with an understanding partner.

Oh, Salana, I knew there was something about you I really liked. I am an AVID reader of Savage Love. I remember that letter (poor guy).

If ever I read Savage Love and leave the article up on the computer (by accident) and my hubby comes across it he's always curious if I'm trying to hint at something. I tell him no, but I have to wonder if I'm doing it subconciously...maybe I should write and ask Dan Savage what he thinks.

[Susan9608]

I have heard stories like that; I guess I should have specified that I doubt circumcision usually results in permanent damage (psychologic or physiologic). I have yet to see an ob botch one - thankfully! They are hard enough to watch as it is.

[Jeanne]

Have you ever heard of Dr. Money? He was the man that stated a child did not understand gender identity until about the age of 2 and that gender identity was learned. An infant boy was brought to him with a penis that had been (pretty much) destroyed. Dr. Money made the infant boy a 'girl' and then spent the next few years watching the child grow. The child always considered himself a boy, even though his parents and others said he was a girl (Dr. Money was very forceful in telling the child he had to act more feminine). As a young teen, he learned the truth and had a new penis made for himself. He then went on to marry and adopted children. Unfortunately, he never got over what happened to him as a child and committed suicide a couple years ago.

That was so totally off topic, but the story started with a botched circumcision...

[salana]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

[tinkerbell]

sometimes dogs tails are docted because of medical reasons. The other day at work an Irish wolfhound came in who's tail was"dead". becuase he was so big and long his heart could not pump that much blood to his tail and the tail "died" it later had to be amputated. the vet said that he has had a lot of these cases where Irish wolf hounds had to get this done and although tail docking is not done to breed he wishes it would be, just to not have to deal with this problem later on in life.

Also I don't know if any one knows this but ALL sheep are born with long tails. usually the very next day though they get eleastic bands but on them and they fall off within a week or two- it is done so that they can breed right later in life and also so that their young can nurse better.

[Inrun]

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

Also I don't know if any one knows this but ALL sheep are born with long tails. usually the very next day though they get eleastic bands but on them and they fall off within a week or two- it is done so that they can breed right later in life and also so that their young can nurse better.

Some breeds are left alone to keep there tails. Sheep tails are weird looking (at least of sheep of the domestic variety). But thats mans fault more then anything because we've bred them to be that way.

http://www.hainaultforest.co.uk/Sheep%20tails.JPG

As you can see, sheep with tails. Kinda weird.

http://www.sheep101.info/tails2.htm

And some more random information on sheep tail docking.

http://www.sheep101.info/tails.html

And even more information on sheep tail docking. (though i'm wary about some of it).

[Faunn]

I love so much about Boxers and Rotts are their little butts and stubs that go 2000 WPM

I'm , but...I love that to! We have a new rott (our last one at 13 died) and she loves to chase refelctions and laser pointers. When she can't reach it, but its right infront of her, she'll wag her stub like CRAZY!!!
-By the way, is ear cropping done by cutting off parts of the ear?

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by Ichnuema

-By the way, is ear cropping done by cutting off parts of the ear?

Yes, they cut off a part of the ear, usually about half of it or more. Then the ears are taped upright into "proper placement" so the cartiladge can harden with the ears upright.

You realize that they cut off part of a dog's tail too when they dock them right? I guess as long as people think mutilating an animal is "cute" it's okay though, right?

[DaisyGP]

Wow, I was begining to think I was the only one on the planet that is against cropping and docking. How could someone think its okat to cut off parts of dogs bodies? I'm also against circumcision but that's just me.

[Spirited]

Dogs' tails are an integral part of their self expression. It is difficult for docked dogs to communicate effectively with dogs who haven't beend around docked tails because they are unable to wag their tails to pacify the un-docked dog. I would imagine the same is true for dogs with cropped ears (we don't get them as much in the UK) as their expression in dog terms is rather aggressive.

I wouldn't be put off adopting a rescue with a docked tail (it isn't the dogs' fault) but I think it's awful that they are still doing it. I wish the British Kennel Club would say that any dog (or at least any dog that isn't a registered working dog) with a docked tail cannot compete in their shows - they could even phase it in to prevent bias to current dogs. If pedigree dog owners were discouraged from docking tails, a lot of it would stop.

It's daft anyway from a breeding point of view (I apologise, I'm a biologist) if a dog's tail is docked then there is no way of improving tails in a particular line.

There is a tiny argument that working dogs such as spaniels are at a high risk of tail injuries and should be docked, but that doesn't change the fact that working dogs and show dogs have very different criteria and usually are completely different hereditary lines. And most docked dogs are pampered show pets that never see dense undergrowth.

In the UK it is illegal for anyone other than a vet to dock a dog's tail. The British Council of Veterinary Surgeons have guidelines that dogs should only be docked for medical reasons. But it still happens

Spirited

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by Spirited

I wouldn't be put off adopting a rescue with a docked tail

Neither would I. I don't think anyone blames the dogs or thinks less of the dogs. I just think less of the people that do it for fashion reasons.

I totally understand cropping/docking because of injury, but for fashion? No, I will not accept it.

A couple of years ago I nearly adopted the sweetest mastiff girl. She was obviously abused and neglected and close to bred to death, but she still loved people. I'm fairly certain she was used as a breeder for a dog fighter but was probably dumped because she wasn't producing aggresive enough pups. The reason I suspect she was a dog fighter's is because her tail was cut off (bad, home job) and her ears were cut off. Not mearly cropped but cut off flush with the head as if done with scissors. What was left of her ears were knots of black scar tissue.

In the end I managed to get her into a mastiff rescue. I really wanted to keep her myself but I had 5 dogs at the time (2 fosters) and really couldn't fit another giant breed dog into my home.

[YK Shepherd]

That is why I breed and own german shepherds. No cruel acts to get those ears up, they do it all on their own. I think if they were not meant to have tails they would be born without and if they were meant to have perfect upright ears they would be born that way. Don't mess with god's perfection. Sorry to get religious.....just my opinion, take for whatever it is worth to you!

[skirbo]

I hope the GSDs in Canada are better than the ones here in the states. They have been so screwed up. Just another medium sized breed that people have decided over time should be bigger, and now some 85% or so couldn't pass an OFA to save their lives. And let's not talk about demodactic mange.

I love the breed, and for years I had the absolute best bitch from a friend of mine who placed her with me when she was five. Girl had never been bred, because should couldn't find the right working temperament, combined with lack of demodax and hip dysplasia. Dog was *fully* trained, passed her TT, great with kids, even *herded* for heaven's sake. And when presented with an abandoned litter of kittens (at my house) she got milk in and raised them herself. Amazing dog, I miss her so much.

Sarah

Originally Posted by YK Shepherd

That is why I breed and own german shepherds. No cruel acts to get those ears up, they do it all on their own. I think if they were not meant to have tails they would be born without and if they were meant to have perfect upright ears they would be born that way. Don't mess with god's perfection. Sorry to get religious.....just my opinion, take for whatever it is worth to you!

[YK Shepherd]

Originally Posted by skirbo

I hope the GSDs in Canada are better than the ones here in the states. They have been so screwed up. Just another medium sized breed that people have decided over time should be bigger, and now some 85% or so couldn't pass an OFA to save their lives. And let's not talk about demodactic mange.

I love the breed, and for years I had the absolute best bitch from a friend of mine who placed her with me when she was five. Girl had never been bred, because should couldn't find the right working temperament, combined with lack of demodax and hip dysplasia. Dog was *fully* trained, passed her TT, great with kids, even *herded* for heaven's sake. And when presented with an abandoned litter of kittens (at my house) she got milk in and raised them herself. Amazing dog, I miss her so much.

Sarah

Have to be very careful where you go here. Alot of the gsd's are over 100 pounds which is way to big. Also big big problems with degenerative myalepathy [ok so I cannot spell it but you catch the drift].

Our first male that we paid alot for tested postive for carrying the gene for that....neutered and rehomed as a pet.

My male now has passed all tests [but he is still too young to breed so all tests will be redone next year] and he is 85 pounds right now. Hope he does not get any bigger because if he goes outside the standard then no breedign for him.

I have three females [2 are pups so we will not talk about them because they need to get into the ring and then do the tests before anything happens], my other bitch is 82 pounds and passed all tests. No mange here but yes there are serious problems with it in Canada. Many many have it, and many are too big, and people do nothing with them but breed and you get basically a mutt!