Cropping of Dogs Ears and Tails

[Jeanne]

My parents have 2 miniature schnauzers that they adopted at the age of 4. Both dogs have had quite a bit of problems with their ears (which are cropped) including recurrent ear infections and mites. The dogs also have docked tails, and I think it looks horrible. I would never do that to my dog.

That being said, I got my cats when I was 19 years old. The cats were ruining the wood doors of my apartment (they had a scratch post and furniture to use) and the landlady told me to get rid of the cats or get them declawed. I chose to get them declawed so they would not end up at the Humane Society. I regret having it done though. I originally thought the nails were just removed. I later learned that part of the toe is removed too.

[rachieanne99]

Wow! I have never even heard of this practice. Shows how completely clueless I am. Due to allergies, I have never been able to have dogs or cats, so I've never had to deal with such issues. Many of my friends have dogs, but I don't think I've ever even heard them talk about this! That's so horrible! I can't believe people continue to do this with no medical reasoning to back it up. You would think this type of thing would cause severe health problems down the road--as Jeanne mentioned. Also, I completely agree with what daft said--the dogs have evolved a certain way!! If they were supposed to have cropped ears and tails, they would occur naturally.

[sunflowergirl]

I don't support cropping but I disagree with the dogs evolving!People changed dogs!Dogs/wolves were not ment to have droopy ears or super long hair or super short legs and flat faces! man made them that way!It isn't natural and borders on cruelty!Dogs can't brush themselves or clean their own ears.Some breeds really suffer because some moron thought it would be cute!

[rachieanne99]

Originally Posted by sunflowergirl

I don't support cropping but I disagree with the dogs evolving!People changed dogs!Dogs/wolves were not ment to have droopy ears or super long hair or super short legs and flat faces! man made them that way!It isn't natural and borders on cruelty!Dogs can't brush themselves or clean their own ears.Some breeds really suffer because some moron thought it would be cute!

Very good point.

[Matt & Guins]

Ear cropping AND tail docking is illegal in Australia. Havent seen any ears done recently, but see my fair share of dogs with "short" tails (cockers, schnauzers etc).

I can understand the reasoning for doing it if it is for health reasons - but seeing as they arent (apart from rare occasions), there is no reason for people to be practicing this still.

Matt

[rugersremi]

[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Hi Everyone, I am new to the boards having only posted a couple of times so far. I now find myself in a thread that can become a heated discussion, but I am sure we are all mature enough to respect each individual’s opinion. With that said, this is my opinion on the subject:[/size][/font]

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[font=Times New Roman][size=3]I do agree that it is not necessary to crop the ears. I own 2 Boxers and they both have natural ears. Each person has a preference. Cropping of ears and tail docking has been done for many, many years and the population as a whole has it embedded in their brain that this is what looks good. Just as magazines and media have embedded in young people’s minds that being “skinny” is how you are supposed to look (whole different topic/thread in itself haha!)[/size][/font]

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[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Now, as for tail docking, I do not have a problem with this procedure. As you know, Boxer’s have a very active rear end with all that wiggling going on. I have read articles that a Boxer’s tail will break easily and that it does NOT heal very well and eventually leads to tail docking. Tail docking at an early age (3-4 days old) is a very quick procedure, just as having that newborn little boy to look just like his father, if you catch my drift. Now, having to have his tail docked at a much older age when his tail will not heal properly and being in pain because it keeps breaking, is much more traumatic (IMO). Please remember that this is just my opionion and I hope that I have not upset anyone too much.[/size][/font]
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[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Renee[/size][/font]

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by rugersremi

[font=Times New Roman]Now, as for tail docking, I do not have a problem with this procedure. As you know, Boxer’s have a very active rear end with all that wiggling going on. I have read articles that a Boxer’s tail will break easily and that it does NOT heal very well and eventually leads to tail docking. Tail docking at an early age (3-4 days old) is a very quick procedure, just as having that newborn little boy to look just like his father, if you catch my drift. Now, having to have his tail docked at a much older age when his tail will not heal properly and being in pain because it keeps breaking, is much more traumatic (IMO). Please remember that this is just my opionion and I hope that I have not upset anyone too much[/font]

In return you will have to respect that many people, myself included, find that the mutilation of an animal for aesthetic reasons an abhorrent procedure.

I have had 2 great danes. They have long and very active tails. They can clear a coffee table in one sweep and the power in their rear ends can cause trauma to their tail if they hit it against a wall edge or other such surface. This can be said for many other breeds as well.

The possibility of tail injury is not a good reason in my eyes to mutilate the animal.

As I said before many breeders "dock" tails by wrapping a rubberband tightly around the tail until it dies and rots off. Most people that buy dogs that have been abused in this manner never know or think to ask about how the tail is docked. I recommend anyone who finds the idea of tail docking acceptable to wrap a rubberband tightly around their finger and see how long it takes for the pain to become unbearable.

[Inrun]

Originally Posted by rugersremi

[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Now, as for tail docking, I do not have a problem with this procedure. As you know, Boxer’s have a very active rear end with all that wiggling going on. I have read articles that a Boxer’s tail will break easily and that it does NOT heal very well and eventually leads to tail docking. Tail docking at an early age (3-4 days old) is a very quick procedure, just as having that newborn little boy to look just like his father, if you catch my drift. Now, having to have his tail docked at a much older age when his tail will not heal properly and being in pain because it keeps breaking, is much more traumatic (IMO). Please remember that this is just my opionion and I hope that I have not upset anyone too much.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Renee[/size][/font]

I have a german shepherd whose tail goes a mile a minute. She's broken it before and has infact because of this had bones fuse in her tail. It's been x-rayed, looked at, vet checked on more then three occasions, and what has our vet said? "Well, she's broken her tail. It'll be fine." wrapped, splinted and moving on, she's fine. She still wags her tail, it doesn't affect her, sure it's a bit kinked... and super super hard and bashed up. But does this bother us? No.
Does it bother the dog? no.
I think the main reason tails are docked are due to aesthetics. And frankly, so long as the dogs not bothered or in pain, why should the tail be taken off? The only tail docking i've ever known that i've agreed with is one where the dog had cancerous lumps in her tail so she had her whole tail removed (she was a lab). And she had a very cute wiggly bum after that. But she needed it taken off.
I don't think many dog breeds (if any) actually need their tails removed. I just think people do it because it's pleasing to them.

[Jeanne]

I've only known one dog that needed it's tail docked for a medical reason (it was not a broken tail). The dog was severely abused and had anxiety problems. She chewed her tail all the time. Wrapping the tail, distracting the dog, etc. did not work. Medication did not work. So, for the dog's safety, the tail was docked.

I have met many animals with broken tails (mostly stray cats) and they never had an issue with it.

By the way, cutting off a piece of your son's penis so that he 'looks like dad' is also cruel (and pointless).

[Sabriel]

Actually I asked my husband what he wants to do when we have a baby, since I wouldn't know really, and he says he wants any male children circumsized. He feels it is cleaner and more convient. I'm really not in a possition to argue it, since I'm not in the same shoes. He is speaking from experience.

[stubblychin]

From someone who hasn't had the procedure, as long as your child washes, it isn't unhygenic. Your hubby probably has some bizarre macho complex... You would probably find that he is the type of person who would not have a pey dog castrated for the same reason.

[Sabriel]

No, actually he's quite the opposite. To him neutering is logical and if anything he is very feminine. He is quite good at sewing, he was the one who wanted the sewing machine, and quite frankly he's make a better house husband then I do a house wife. But I hurt my back so he has a better paying job then I can get right now.

Almost every single boy in this province was cirumsized when it was covered under OHIP. Unless you had a really good reason not to it was just the done thing around here. So all manner of men in Ontario seem to feel it's what they want for thier sons. Macho men, feminine men, "normal" men . Maybe it is less prevalent in America since some procedures are not free?

[Jeanne]

Actually, that is not exactly true Sabriel. Most english speaking, white men were circumcized. French Canadians (such as myself) tend not to circumcize their male children. There is literally no one in my family who is circumcized. The doctors were going to automatically circumcize my brothers at birth and my mom and dad had a fit. Why cut something off that belongs there?

[Susan9608]

It is an interesting comparions to draw, between tail docking/ear cropping and the circumcision of newborn babies.

The majority of babies in the US are circumcised, however the AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) has stated that the medical benefits of circumcision are not sufficient to recommend that every male automatically be circumcised.

Circumcision is an extremely painful and traumatic experience; I have had to assist with many. A baby is not "put under" for the procedure; rather, he is wide awake. If your physician is open-minded and fairly liberal in practice, your infant may receive a dose of plain, infant tylenol half an hour prior to the procedure. If your physician is extremely open-minded and forward thinking, your child may receive a penile block (lidocaine injected directly into the nerve path of the penis) immediately prior to the circumcision. It's just too bad that these blocks take about 5-10 minutes to work, and most physicians don't (wont') wait that long. The infant is then strapped down into an infant shaped papose board. Parents generally aren't allowed to be present for a circumcision, so the infant has only a nurse for comfort. The strapping down is terrifying, so infants scream and cry even before the procedure starts. A pacifer dipped in sugar water is then stuffed into an infant's mouth, for comfort, but infants are usually too upset at that point to suck on it. Then the procedure begins; a rather large piece of skin is literally cut away from a baby's genitals with a scalpel. Then a piece of vaseline gauze is draped over the open wound, the kid is diapered, handed over to the nurse, and that's that .... no further pain medications are usually given.

A circumcisions is also generally done by an ob, not a pediatrician ... so the whole thing is performed by someone who is specially trained to treat *adults* not children.

It's a pretty barbaric procedure, in my opinion, especially since it's done for cosmetic purposes. My husband is circumcised, but if we end up having boys, I will *not* have them circumcised, just so that they will look like him.

In my opinion, having different genitals and not having been circumcised myself doesn't preclude me from having an opinion on MY child having the procedure done. Of course, I acknowledge that there are many religious and cultural reasons why people choose to circumcise their babies, and everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I would never say that someone is *wrong* to circumcise their child, but personally, given how the procedure is conducted, and given the fact that it is done for cosmetics more than anything, I wish that the whole procedure would be done away with. Just like I wish ear cropping and tail docking for animals would be done away with.

They are very painful procedures which are truly not necessary for the health and well-being of a dog ... or infant.

[SugarSpice]

I myself think it is riduclious to this . The guy We got our american pitt bull from asked us if we would like to have our dogs tail cut ! Oh my was I ever so mad . The thought of putting a little pup through this pain . He uses a rubber band and lets it rot off . Like voodoo said , zuese' s tail can also clear a table in a second and when it hit you it hurts like .... One of my most favirote things about see a dog happy is when he wags his long beautiful tail like crazy .

[lilchris_28]

Pits don't normally get their tails docked, do they?

[Sabriel]

I am not sure how circumcision is done in Ontario. But since you have to pay for it now, I would think you could request a penile block. I would be very willing to pay extra for such a thing.

Jeanne, I think it is more prevalent in Southern Ontario, where my husband and I grew up. He had never met an uncircumcisized male untill he moved here. Coincidentally the firs