Children breeding guinea pigs

[CavyKind]

I would imagine many of us on this board have shared our lives with guinea pigs since childhood.
When my sister and I grew up, we always had a couple of guineas, always same gender.

My parents would never have allowed us to breed even one litter, never mind set a shed up in the back garden where we could indulge in guinea pig breeding on a grand scale.
My mum and dad, weren't animal lovers as such, but ensured the guinea pigs were well cared for, supervising their needs and covering vet bills.
They were however ethical people and breeding animals, on any scale was not on the cards.

It horrifies me the number of children that are now setting themselves up as breeders, wearing the title like a badge of pride.
These youngsters have no real life experience, are out at school long hours, often have little grasp of even basic guinea pig care and no funds of their own to pay for veterinary bills.

They buy animals from other breeders, pet shops and the table top guinea pig sales at the wonderful shows they attend....it is horrifying.

Sadly the guinea pig clubs and experienced older breeders who frequent so many of the gp boards do nothing but encourage them. Though I suppose the children provide a useful outlet for the established breeders own "substandard" animals?

Children should not be breeding any type of animal. End of story.

Barbara

[CavyAddict]

I agree 110%.

Well Said.

If people decide to become breeders then their should be some sort of license that has to be held

[daftscotslass]

I am very shocked as well. I got my first guinea pig when I was 12, a big boar named Bubbles. I have to say, the breeding thought did cross my mind more than once. I would never, ever have been allowed. My mum knew that although I cleaned, looked after and loved my guinea pigs (of which I had 2), she was ultimately responsible for them - financially and if I got bored of them.

Now, luckily I never did "bore" of them, and stopped keeping piggies for a couple of years while I was at university and after my last one died, and only kept them once I had moved out and could cope financially.

I believe it is despicable and irresponsible of parents, especially those of children under the age of 18, who let their kids keep more guinea pigs than they can rightly take care of. I'm sorry, but if you are under 18 and you cannot pay the food, housing and vet bills yourself, then you are not truly responsible. If your parents are turning a blind eye to this, and just paying for it to keep you quiet then I despair.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

I hear little kids at adoption days begging their parents to go to Petco, buy pigs and breed them.

I have to say that 4H isn't helping. We get emails from parents who want to get their kids gps to breed too. They want to teach them about miracle of life and some BS. '

Scary.

[suzilovespiggie]

4-H is very big in AZ. I know of one breeder who breeds GP's for 4-H. She is a leader of a GP group. When kids join she gives them a GP. In talking of why she breeds, "oh, it's addictive and you are looking for that perfect pig, that will be grand champian. Plus I'm helping the kids." I don't know if she teaches the kids to breed or not. There are all kinds of rules.
I go to church with this woman, and repeatedly have tried to show her Cavy Cages, or the GL site. I have asked her what happens to the piggies that can't be shown? "Oh, they go as pets or the pet store takes them." I have tried numerous times to tell her about overpopulation. She thinks it's funny that I go looking to adopt and have adopted when she has pigs.I have asked her what happens when a sow dies, or babies die. "That is just part of life and the process." It saddens me so. I have tried to talk of the overpopulation of pigs. She thinks I am so funny. That I go looking to adopt and have adopted, when she has pigs. Like the breeders who come on this forum, she and they just don't get it. I cannot change her mind. I do keep trying.
It was thru this site that I became aware of the evils of 4-H and of breeding. I am now a true believer and will continue to be anti-breeding and pro adoption. I have numerous animals, all are adopted. I believe in spay and nuetering and no babies for any breed. I will preach that until I die. I will fight for the animals until I die. I will keep trying to change minds until I die.
Sorry, I got on my soapbox. Thank you so much for this site!
If 4-H, even thru this woman, is teaching children how to breed, that is very very sad
indeed.

[CavyKind]

What is 4H? Sorry but I can't work it out.

Thank you,
Barbara

[CavySpirit]

I believe in spay and nuetering and no babies for any breed. I will preach that until I die. I will fight for the animals until I die. I will keep trying to change minds until I die.

Amen.

I'll leave someone else to explain 4H to the non-US members.

However, a close friend of mine came up with a quick summary of what the 4H animal programs are really about. And we've had these conversations in depth on GL.

But, here's the truth of 4H. It's not 4H.
It's 4B--Brainwash, Breed, Brag and Butcher.

Sadly the guinea pig clubs and experienced older breeders who frequent so many of the gp boards do nothing but encourage them. Though I suppose the children provide a useful outlet for the established breeders own "substandard" animals?

Exactly. This is a key point on where the theory of that illusive 'responsible breeder' breaks down. I have yet to meet one that doesn't encourage kids to breed. Kids who they don't know. I've seen every single one of the known breeders in ACBA who post publicly do this. Every one. And I've saved off quite a few of the posts they've made over time. There are many.

[suzilovespiggie]

4-H is a kinda of club for children 8-18 years old. They raise and show farm animals, rabbits, GP's, ducks, birds ,goats and sometimes rats. They also do crafts, sewing, and cooking. It is to teach the children community and responsiblity. The ending of the year is the county fair where the animals are shown and judged. There is a grand champian, champian, and trophies and ribbons. At the end of the showing and judging there is an auction where the biggest animal is sold to the highest bidder, most of the time for food. Sometimes they are kept for breeding. The kids with the GP's and rabbits, birds and goats I do believe go also to the highest bidder but those are used for breeding. The animals not in the auction if the kids no longer want them sell for about 5 or 10 dollars to whoever wants them no questions asked.
Several years ago, before I knew of this site, and knew of the evils of showning and breeding, I bought my first 2 pigs from 4-H for 5.00 dollors a piece.
I no longer use 4-H as a means of getting pigs. I adopt only now. I try to talk to those in 4-H about a better way. No breeding and adopting those who need homes so badly because of over breeding. But, sadly, as I said, 4-H is very widely accepted in
AZ and very hard to penetrate.

[aqh88]

Hold on here. I was in 4-h for 7years. It's not all about breeding. Most of it was about projects either animal or non animal related. We did fund raisers for various events and helped out around the community. Part of 4h is that you are required to help the community in some way every year. I did horse shows which is not about breeding it was mostly about friends hanging out and the few people that got too serious. Those people usually got disciplined or talked to by either adults or other 4h members for their treatment of their horses. Horse shows were meant to be for fun both for the people and horses and we did not tolerate people losing their patience with their animals. 4h taught alot of responsibility and patience to alot of kids and to do work. We had to fill out forms every year on what we did in our project and keep track of the costs and any money made.
Yea there are some groups that do breed cattle, hogs, sheep, goats, rabbits and show them but 4h should never be just about the breeding. Most of those kids also live on a farm where raising these animals for food is their parents life and the livelihood of their family. Of course they are going to choose a few of those animals for themselves to raise and show. Some even built up their own little herds and learned responsible quality breeding practices. You can't sit there saying 4h is evil just because a few breed animals just for fun and do it irresponsibly or because most of you are vegetarian. Just like the people in Peru who raise and eat guinea pigs this is the way these farmers make money and they don't know any other life. The kids are raised to learn how to handle the cattle or other livestock and choose quality breeding stock. For most of us 4h taught us responsibility and respect for the animals as well as manners and how to help others.

[Sabriel]

I think it depends on where you are. I know one lady on GL has a group that does not breed. Her group does projects like making booklets and board games instead.

[suzilovespiggie]

That may be true of the bigger animals, but the GP's are kept in small cages for almost 2 weeks when they are at fair. Many, maybe not all, are used for breeding. Most are forsale to whoever will buy them. I have seen the GP's who don't measure up, you don't get ribbons, sold off. I myself can't see how you raise and animal for a year, love it, care for it, feed it then sell it knowing it will go for food, as in the bigger animals. As for the GP's to raise it and love it and them sell it because it doesn't win or meet breeding requirements. That breaks my heart. I have my pigs and all my animals until death to us part.
When I bought my pigs thru 4-H I thought I was rescueing, but I wasn't. I was adding to the problem of overpopulation.
I know 4-hH teaches community and responsibility. I would like to see it done without animals.

[Moxie]

I have done 4-h before and I haven’t really seen any of what you all are saying. Now I live in a small town so other 4-h groups are probably as bad as you all say but the group I was in was fine. We brought our bunnies to a 4-h show once a year. The rabbits stayed at the show for about 2 or 3 hours and you had to be with your rabbit at all times. There was a pet class and a couple classes for breeds. Since there where only 10 or so rabbits just about every one got a blue ribbon, mixed breed or not. No one ever thought about selling their rabbit(s). Some did breed once or so but that was their choice, it was never pushed a pone them by anyone. I am not in a 4-h group anymore, once I learned about this web site I realized I did not want to be a part in it anymore.

[smoot]

Originally Posted by daftscotslass

I believe it is despicable and irresponsible of parents, especially those of children under the age of 18, who let their kids keep more guinea pigs than they can rightly take care of.

This is a huge part of the problem right here. Irresponsible parents. It's sad but a large part of the adult population is clueless when it comes to animal needs and welfare.

I first encountered it when I started fishkeeping. I was disgusted at parents who would drag their little brats into a fishstore, have them pick out the fish they want, and then pick out a tank (usually too small) . The tank should be up and running weeks before fish are introduced. Then the fish have to be chosen carefully, with habitat and compatibilty considerations.

I know several people who have begged for puppies from a co-worker's accidental litter, only to leave the dogs tied up in the backyard their whole lives. How are their children supposed to know the right way to treat a pet? But then what can we expect from people who probably let the television raise their children?

My dad taught me to always be kind to animals because they can't fend for themselves. My mom taught me that taking care of pets is hard work, so I have no illusions about how time-consuming and stinky petcare can be. I'm 26 years old and sometimes I get overwhelmed by my three pigs; how can a child possibly be equipped to breed?

Someone said in another thread that breeders should be required to have a license. I agree completely - people should have to get a license to have children.

[CavyKind]

Hello and thank you all for the explanation of 4H. Some different perspectives, but of course that is to be expected.

I don't think there is anything similar in the UK, if there is, I've never come across it.

Barbara

[Sabriel]

I think you have less of the "All American Farmer" culture in the UK. Some groups exist in Canada, but usually only in the boondocks.

[twofinepigs]

"I know 4-hH teaches community and responsibility. I would like to see it done without animals."

4-H is very well-thought of in our (agricultural) community. And I think it is almost inseparable from animals. The kids are taught animal husbandry - this is not a bad thing, necessarily. I think it is tragic that many children raise animals (pigs and sheep and cows) and the purpose is to sell them off for food - but there is another side: meat-eaters should KNOW where their food comes from. We should know that an animal dies so we can have a cheeseburger. It would be interesting to know how many 4-H kids wind up vegetarians after the experience!

However, other kids are involved in the dairy industry with sheep and goats, and they learn to care for their own animals and look after their welfare. I know many may not support animals being kept for dairy either, but it IS a big industry in these parts, and I think it is beneficial that the children learn to think of and care for the animals as individuals, and not see them as solely "livestock".

I think it would be great if 4-H adopted a no-kill philosophy and limited itself to beneficial animal husbandry.

[Funnygpigs]

Are you sure you bought from a 4-H club? Or, was it an actual cavy show? Because, from what I know of 4-H (I was in dog 4-H when I was a kid). You have children aged 5-18, with their pets as their "show" animal. I dont really see kids selling their pets, especially after they just won a ribbon for them. That is a little hard for me to buy.

Originally Posted by suzilovespiggie

That may be true of the bigger animals, but the GP's are kept in small cages for almost 2 weeks when they are at fair. Many, maybe not all, are used for breeding. Most are forsale to whoever will buy them. I have seen the GP's who don't measure up, you don't get ribbons, sold off. I myself can't see how you raise and animal for a year, love it, care for it, feed it then sell it knowing it will go for food, as in the bigger animals. As for the GP's to raise it and love it and them sell it because it doesn't win or meet breeding requirements. That breaks my heart. I have my pigs and all my animals until death to us part.When I bought my pigs thru 4-H I thought I was rescueing, but I wasn't. I was adding to the problem of overpopulation.
I know 4-hH teaches community and responsibility. I would like to see it done without animals.

[Sabriel]

I think it depends on the 4-H you went to. Also, people tend to view gps as less valuble (I know, it sucks, but it's true) so you would be more likely to see selling going on with gps then dogs.

I doubt she was mistaken. Up here you can see a 4-H club from a mile a way. They tend to have a huge sign somewhere that says "4-H" and has a big logo.

[Funnygpigs]

Well, I must be totally ignorant to what I thought 4-H was about. I had no idea that kids at 4-H would be selling their pets after a show. That is very sad! I was thinking about having my daughter join g-pig 4-H, but I am not so sure now. I think I woul dend-up getting in to it with people over breeding! Better check it out first!-haha

Originally Posted by Sabriel

I think it depends on the 4-H you went to. Also, people tend to view gps as less valuble (I know, it sucks, but it's true) so you would be more likely to see selling going on with gps then dogs.

I doubt she was mistaken. Up here you can see a 4-H club from a mile a way. They tend to have a huge sign somewhere that says "4-H" and has a big logo.

[Marlania]

Originally Posted by CavyKind

My parents would never have allowed us to breed even one litter

Mine either. I had my first pet, a yellow Lab named Gumbo, when I was 3 years old. She lived until I was 14. When I was 4-ish, I remember asking my dad that if Gumbo ever had puppies, could we keep them all, and he said, "Of course." Little did I know he had Gumbo spayed as soon as we got her (she was about 6 months old when she came to live with us). So he indulged my fantasy of having a zillion little lab puppies, but of course, I was only 4 so I guess he didn't want to crush my dream. Twenty years later, big dogs who were once little lab puppies, filled my rescue group, and I'm very thankful that I didn't contribute to the problem of overpopulation.

Yes, I know that was very un-guinea pig oriented, but it did fall along the lines of responsible parenting and whatnot.