I just joined.

[VoodooJoint]

This thread is getting out of hand.

I have a rescue ball python who eats humanely prekilled food. She gets just as much exercise eating prekilled as she would if she ate live. She constricts and stalks it in exactly the same way as she would a live animals.

Watching an animal die is not "awesome". It's actually extremely disturbing and the people that enjoy watching animals die have something seriously wrong with their level of empathy and their moral compass.

I have never in my experience known of a reptile that would not accept pre killed meals. I have helped many people make the humane switch and 100% were successful. A dedicated owner can make it work in most cases. Yes, there are a few that will never accept prekilled but I don't believe there are very many. If it was a large percentage then a law against feeding live would not be able to exist in the UK. I don't think most people try very hard to make the switch to a humane option because they get that sick thrill of watching one animal kill another.

Most reptile keepers are not good or dedicated. They have reptiles for all the wrong reasons. Reptiles should not be available in petstores and people should need to have a special license to own them. Any breeding of these animals should be left up to trained, licenced, college educated Herpetologists, not kids or mere fanciers. More damage is done on whim breeding and the breeding of genetically poor examples of the animal in question then the poor, neglectful owners cause. Animals bought in petstore are NEVER good candidates for breeding. They are always breeder rejects that didn't make the cut to either stay in the breeding program or get sold for high prices to other experienced Herpetologists.

People need to stop treating animals like toys and they need to stop playing god with their reproduction. Just because you can breed more doesn't mean you should breed more.

[katiewilson]

Originally Posted by VoodooJoint

This thread is getting out of hand.

People need to stop treating animals like toys and they need to stop playing god with their reproduction. Just because you can breed more doesn't mean you should breed more.

I'm a little too brand new with the posting to be able to enable my "Thank you for this helpful post!" button, so I hope this will do.

I firmly believe that it is crucial for those with animals in their care to be fully aware of and educated to the ways of the bigger picture. The much, much bigger picture. There are few things more frustrating to those that work so hard to minimize animals' suffering caused by overpopulation than to see their efforts diminished by a few.

[SNAKE CHARMER]

Here we go. The pet store I go to specializes in reptiles and is very knowledgable and knows what there doing I have heard of many other independant businsses like them. There are alot of dedicated reptile owners out there I can prove it with the number of how many forums there are and how many people breed reptiles with success and have healthy animals. I would hate it for exotics to be banned from ownership there are many who have forged there life with reptiles by taking pride in there healthy and beautiful animals that they keep and/or breed also,those breeders and keepers that offer care advice to anyone who asks. I'm tired of always running into this argument can we just agree to disagree. Yes there are bad reptile owners out there but alot of us keep our animals healthy and happy just like there are bad rodent owners there always be bad pet owners whether its reptiles,fish,or rodents thats why we still need good pet owners to try and help the bad ones. By the way i've already mentioned that my sav monitor lizard eats crickets but no ones bashed me for that wonder why?(sniff sniff I smell prejudicy). All i know is I have my passion and you have yours I will not judge you because of your passion so be respectful and don't judge me because of mine I take alot of pride in the health and beauty of the animals I own and love them same with alot of other keepers. Again lets agree to disagree.

[katiewilson]

Originally Posted by SNAKE CHARMER

I can prove it with the number of how many forums there are and how many people breed reptiles with success and have healthy animals. I would hate it for exotics to be banned from ownership there are many who have forged there life with reptiles by taking pride in there healthy and beautiful animals that they keep and/or breed also,those breeders and keepers that offer care advice to anyone who asks.

Beyond agreeing to disagree on keeping reptiles, are you unwilling to acknowledge that, as long as pet overpopulation continues to be a problem, we should always adopt and rescue needy animals rather than contribute to the problem by buying from pet stores or breeders?

[SNAKE CHARMER]

Originally Posted by katiewilson

Beyond agreeing to disagree on keeping reptiles, are you unwilling to acknowledge that, as long as pet overpopulation continues to be a problem, we should always adopt and rescue needy animals rather than contribute to the problem by buying from pet stores or breeders?

A beginner should buy from a breder or a knowegdable pet store. Now if you are experienced it is great that your willing to give that mistreated reptile a home. You need to be experienced since the adopted animal might have gotten a disease or parasite so you'll need to be able to diagnose any problems and keep the animal quarantined for awhile. I comend those out there that that take in abused,abanonded,mis treated animals. I have considered doing alittle bit if rescuing aslong as its a species i'm experienced with.

[Drawingwords]

Snake Charmer - I have a beardie and a leopard gecko myself. After going to some Audobon society meetings, it is ridiculous how many mistreated and neglected reptiles are out there. People are so educated about how many neglected dogs and cats are out there. When people don't want to care for a reptile or it gets "too big" then it's let outside to either suffer, mame indigenous animals or starve to death.

Snake cages for one, should be large enough for a snake to uncoil itself fully. Not many hobbyists are going to have this kind of structure built. Reptiles should NOT be sold as pets like Voodoo stated. By breeding them, you are contributing to them being dumped outside in the wild. Why don't you volunteer your services at a reptile rescue like this one. http://www.creatureprogram.com That way you would actually be doing good while sastifying your affection for these gorgeous animals.

[SNAKE CHARMER]

*sigh* I know that there are many bad keepers of pets(its not just reptiles)but,there are also many good keepers I would show you but,I would have to show you other forums and I don't think the mods would like also, I'd prefer to not direct to them because many of the members are very good people and don't deserve any crap. Now for the last time lets agree to disagree.

[dra&pigs]

I'm sorry to intrude, especially if this thread is calming down, but I have some things to say.

Originally Posted by SNAKE CHARMER

Here we go. The pet store I go to specializes in reptiles and is very knowledgable and knows what there doing.

The words "pet stores" and "very knowledgable" do not go together, no matter how much you may try to put them together. If the pet store was really so very knowledgable, then they wouldn't be selling the animals. They wouldn't be giving them away to any person who walks in and pays blank amount of money to take the poor thing home. Reptiles are not pets in the sense that they are still almost exactly the same things as their wild companions. Therefore they aren't pets, and they should not be kept (although for those of you who rescue them, they can't be released again, so kudos to you. I have two rescued leapord geckos). A pet store "specializing" in reptiles does not specialize in anything except getting people to buy them. You can't tell me I'm wrong; there is no reason that reptiles should be kept as pets, and no reason whatsoever someone should support a shop that sells them.
Snake Charmer-Where did your reptiles come from?

[SNAKE CHARMER]

Originally Posted by dra&pigs

I'm sorry to intrude, especially if this thread is calming down, but I have some things to say.



The words "pet stores" and "very knowledgable" do not go together, no matter how much you may try to put them together. If the pet store was really so very knowledgable, then they wouldn't be selling the animals. They wouldn't be giving them away to any person who walks in and pays blank amount of money to take the poor thing home. Reptiles are not pets in the sense that they are still almost exactly the same things as their wild companions. Therefore they aren't pets, and they should not be kept (although for those of you who rescue them, they can't be released again, so kudos to you. I have two rescued leapord geckos). A pet store "specializing" in reptiles does not specialize in anything except getting people to buy them. You can't tell me I'm wrong; there is no reason that reptiles should be kept as pets, and no reason whatsoever someone should support a shop that sells them.
Snake Charmer-Where did your reptiles come from?

My reptiles came from the pet store I mentioned the manager has a degree in biology and specalized in reptiles. The employees down there are also reptile keepers that already knew alot then the manager taught them more they sell only captive bred reptiles and will take in rescues. They breed red-tail boas,many colubrids,ball pythons,& beardies they take great care of there reptiles but,if they have a rescue that is sick then they heal it for example right now they are healing a dwarf retic that came to them with mouthrot so far the anti-biotics the managers been using is doing the trick. They do not sell a reptile to just anyone the buyer has to be willing to learn or already learned anyone buying is stuck there for 2 hours wall the manager and/or employees tell the buyer how to care for the animal. They also have set-up deals to make sure the buyer gets the set-up right. They have also taught me alot. The pet store is very knowledgable not like petco,petsmart,etc... they are good people and you will not insult them.

[dra&pigs]

I am and will insult any store who sells pets, regardless of how carefully they check their set-up, and how many hours they've spent teaching the person about the animal. Because, you know what? After all that, that animal may still live a horrible life. Just because they have the proper set-up (which can easily go unused) and they have heard about care for the reptiles does not mean that they will follow the care instructions they heard. It can go in one ear and out the other (like math class). I am not insulting the person, just their career. You cannot breed and take great care of an animal at the same time. Breeding an animal is obviously not for their gain, its for the person's. They don't have a choice about breeding. If a person puts a male and a female in the same enclosure, they will breed. Tell me how that is great care for the animal and I'll listen. Those reptiles are not in the wild and do not have the same needs as those in the wild do. They do not have any reason to breed, at all. I am not insulting the person who runs this pet store, I simply think he doesn't know any better. You could, instead of arguing, help him know better.

[SNAKE CHARMER]

Ohhh I am so tired of this argument. I go down to the pet store every weekend and about 90% of the customers come back to stock up on feeders,get advice,buy suplies,buy more animals,etc... . You guys just don't like the keeping of reptiles I will respect that it is your view and I have no right to change it but, you guys have been attacking me eversince I got here me who takes care of his animals wall my brother who doesn't take care of his animals has hardly got as much crap as I have. Can we please put this topic to rest I'm tired of putting on my battle suit everytime I come here I'm only here to get what info I need I only need one more thing answered I'll leave this site monday evening if you guys could stop this argument for that long I'd appreciate it.

[dra&pigs]

OK, I see your point. And I do support your care of your brothers animals-although I also believe that he shouldn't have any to begin with. Maybe if your brother had come onto this site instead of you, he would have gotten the crap. Who knows? I'm not attacking you about your personal care of animals, just your support of the pet store. But, I'll stop, and if you have any questions relating to cavies, you can PM me and I'll try to provide the best possible answers.

[SNAKE CHARMER]

Originally Posted by dra&pigs

OK, I see your point. And I do support your care of your brothers animals-although I also believe that he shouldn't have any to begin with. Maybe if your brother had come onto this site instead of you, he would have gotten the crap. Who knows? I'm not attacking you about your personal care of animals, just your support of the pet store. But, I'll stop, and if you have any questions relating to cavies, you can PM me and I'll try to provide the best possible answers.

I agree he shouldn't have any pets but,the guinea pigs here and whats done is done. I'm going to talk to my mom about it when she gets back hopefully I can convince her to find another home for the guinea pig. And thanks for stopping the argument.

[dra&pigs]

Your welcome.

[Bennalaya]

Originally Posted by SNAKE CHARMER

I'm going to talk to my mom about it when she gets back hopefully I can convince her to find another home for the guinea pig.

I think that may be for the best, for everyone involved. I mean no offense, but in order to maintain the peace with your brother, your mother has been enabling a pattern of pet neglect. We learn at a very young age how to tend to our responsibilities. For example, people who grow up in a home where pets are treated as disposable when they become messy or expensive or an inconvenience will most likely view pets in the same fashion as an adult. I love animals and dedicate a good portion of my life to helping them because I was raised in a home with parents who love animals and always took in the strays to have them spayed or neutered. Who always found a way to foster an animal in need.

I had a positive upbringing and there was always a positive overtone when dealing with the animals in our home. My parents never left an animal solely in my care. If they had and I abused that privilege by being negligent and not caring for the animal, the animal would have been removed from my care. Your mother has tried so hard to appease your brother by allowing him to take in these animals that cannot be left in the care of a child. He isn't old enough to know better. He doesn't have the financial resources to take care of animal.

The best thing in this situation would be for your brother to learn an important lesson in life - that animals need us to take care of them and when we cannot, they need to go to someone who will take care of them. And then your mother needs to put her foot down and say "no more pets until you're much older". He's learning bad habits. He has taken the animals for granted. He knows despite lack of care your mother will continue to provide him with more critters he will not properly tend to. She has to break that cycle of negative and irresponsible thinking toward animals.