HAFF/ Pellet free diet question

[Travelingirl916]

Upon the recommendation of my vet, I am going to be switching to a pellet free diet. My girls are currently getting KMs timothy pellets, Oxbow daily vitamin C, Orchard grass hay, and lots of veggies.

I have been doing lots of reading on the HAFF/pellet free diet, and I understand about giving the hay, veggies, vit. C, etc. However I haven't been able to find anything addressing vit. D. Apparently there isn't much of it in veggies, but is added to pellets. Is this something that I would supplement, and if so what brand and how much would I give daily. It is especially important that they get enough vit. D because on of my girls is a satin. Are there any other things that may need supplementation?

Thank you in advance!

[Duffinvt]

You can search HAFF in the search box, upper right of page. The HAFF has been discussed in the past. It is very, very tricky to do the diet correctly. Even our nutrition expert, Ly, was hesitant to recommend it. Perhaps she'll pop in to comment on the vitamin D question.

[skinnypigs]

Why did your vet recommend it?

[Travelingirl916]

Weight issues was why it was recommended. We've had one of our girls for a year now, and she hasn't lost hardly any weight. She is super lazy. When we give her floor time she will just lay down and relax, she is not the least bit active. I have done the search for HAFF and pellet free on here and GuineaLynx, but I'm not finding anything about the vitamin D issue. It's looking like I will have to keep giving the pellets.

If the HAFF wouldn't work out what would be the minimum pellets I could give but still be giving them all of their nutrients? Right now they all get 1/8 cup per pig per day. Is that the minimum?

[Duffinvt]

Yes, 1/8 cup. I have a hefty gal (my other three are fine). I often take her out of the cage for floortime and put her way across the room so she'll have to hike it to the pigaloo. Not a huge amount of exercise, but it adds "steps" to her routine at least

[Aertyn]

I've had a couple of umm...robust pigs in the past. For floortime I'd really spread the food + hideys out, it was the only way to get them to move. However, some pigs are just naturally chunky. Even with a 'diet' and exercise they will still be chunky. My biggest was Josef, he topped out at 1500g at one stage. How much does she weigh?

[Paula]

Just out of curiosity, was it Burgess that recommended it? If so, is your girl actually hefty, in your opinion? I ask, because he is kind of a fat-o-phobe and determines that just about every animal is fat. He's even been known to charge extra for surgeries for "complications due to fat." I'd be very curious to know if she's actually heavy, or if it's just his opinion.

So, to answer your question. The one and only big issue with a HAFF diet is the vitamin D supplementation. You could provide it by syringe or sprinkled on the food; but personally, I'd cut down to a teaspoon of pellets per pig per day. That's what was recommended to me for my stone/sludge pigs and it worked out fine.

[Travelingirl916]

As far as floortime, we have tried those things, but they don't work. She doesn't care in the least bit about hideys, and will just lay out in the open. If we give veggies or hay, she always lays down in the middle of the pile and eats it while laying down. We have tried making block mazes so she eats veggies along the way through the maze, but she will just eat the veggies right in front of her, then just relax.

Paula- Yes, it was Dr. Burgess. Yes, she is hefty as far as looks go, and she is pure fat and no muscle. She only weighs ~1200 grams, but she is just pure fat so looks really large. When we adopted her I actually thought she was pregnant, if that gives you an idea. My other girls are basically pure muscle, so they weigh just a little less but they look a whole lot smaller. She is my only girl he has said that about.

If I just give 1 teaspoon per day, would they still get all the nutrients and vitamins they need?

[skinnypigs]

Is is possible that is just her body type, maybe she has a slower metabolism and there isn't much that can be done?
My Barnaby and Ernie are like night and day body wise. Barnaby is chubby and Ernie is thin, yet they eat the same things and both are basically the same active wise.
I have tried cutting back on things for Barnaby and he always stays the same.
Do you feed her many carrots or sugary veggies?

[Paula]

If I just give 1 teaspoon per day, would they still get all the nutrients and vitamins they need?

If you're feeding a good variety of veggies - Yes. You could also do a tablespoon if you'd feel better about it.

I think I'd have to see her to understand, but 1200 isn't really that large for a female. Is there any possibility of cysts? They will make a pig have a pearish, pregnant appearance. I'd be surprised if Mark hadn't thought of that, but it's worth ruling out.

[Travelingirl916]

She had ovarian cysts and was spayed several months ago, so it rules that out. Dr. Burgess just thinks she is obese and wants her to lose weight.

They all get a good diet. Daily they get 2 Tablespoons of KMs timothy pellets, unlimited orchard grass hay, 1/2 Oxbow daily C tablet, and veggies. They always get red or green leaf lettuce, and a variety of baby spring mix, cilantro, parsley, tomato, bell pepper, zucchini, cucumber, and the occassional carrot or fruit. She is prone to gas though, so she only gets a sliver of the bell pepper, tomato, carrot, and any other sugary things.

I think that I will just further lower the pellet intake, because I want to make sure she will still get all her essential nutrients. Thank you all for the responses.

[Nicolene]

I have a 3 lb (1360 grams) male. One vet (one time visit) said he was "underweight" and when I saw my regular vet and told him, he chuckled and said, "does he look underweight to you?" He really doesn't. He also doesn't look fat, he's a long, tall piggy, especially compared to our other pig who is small, short and really was skinny for a while (now he's looking quite chubby). I think they are both at a healthy weight because they have very stable weights, even when the big one had surgery he only lost 2oz and gained it right back. Neither of theirs bellies drag on the ground, they are all legs when the chase each other around our living room.

The bigger pig has been on pellets, off of pellets (sludge issues, for a long time, didn't lose a single ounce) and now that he is recovering from stone surgery he seems interested in pellets again (I had trouble getting him to eat veggies after surgery, but he loved critical care, so we gave him pellets when we would be out for the majority of the day, he's back on the veggies and off the pellets again).

My one year old pig has never had pellets. I think they are just fine. They get the best possible variety and lots of hay. My vet told me that pellets were designed for lab animals, to simplify feeding and clean up, and he believes in Biologically Appropriate Raw Food diets for ALL animals, and I tend to agree.

I think it's up to you, it might not hurt to try reducing her pellets for a month or so, but from experience they won't lose weight (at least mine didn't). As for exercise, when my pigger seemed too inactive and wasn't pooping right (2 weeks after surgery) I would sit next to his cage and kind of poke at him to make him get up and irritated and move around. It's hard to chase them around because stress isn't good for them either, but I hope you find something that works for your pig.

Maybe she's just a big boned gal. But whatever the cause, I hope you can figure it out. Good luck!

[Travelingirl916]

Thanks, do you do anything to address the vitamin D issue? I, too, agree in trying to have as natural of a diet as possible, and although KMs pellets are the best around, there are still some ingredients I don't like in them.

[Nicolene]

No, I don't, because I can't control all of it and right now calcium is my biggest concern. I hope that he gets some D on those days that he likes to lay in the sun in front of the open sliding door (closed mesh though).

It's hard to get them on a "perfect" diet. So I just do my best.

[Travelingirl916]

Yes we have do to our best. Thank you all for your help, I am going to discuss this further with my vet, and decide what to do from there.