I don't know what I am doing wrong. - Page 2 - Guinea Pig Cages, Care, Store, Photos of Guinea Pigs and More Forum!

**JD In Van** · #21 10-07-09, 11:26 pm

If water intake is good why is watery veggies (such as cucumber) so limited? I would think they would be helpful then.

DalesLass · #22 10-08-09, 03:39 am

What is the tap water like in your area (unless you use bottled water) ?

'Hard' water has higher levels of calcium and this could increase the chances of your pig getting sludge/stones.

**couchon** · #23 10-26-09, 03:29 pm

I wanted to bring this post back, because it seems like the problem is escalating. I found a lot of calcium on the hidey. I have switched to Kleenmama pellets. I am going to switch from Timothy Hay to Orchard Grass as soon as possible. Is there anything else I should be doing?

DalesLass · #24 10-26-09, 03:52 pm

Can you just rule out one possibilty. I have looked at your profile and seen the pictures of your pigs. Which pig has the problem (or have you not figured it out yet?)

The tri-colour pig has a normal coat but is the red Abyssinian satin coated? It's hard to tell for definite from the pics.

Satins have a problem somewhere with calcium absorption / metabolism. Very little is known about it yet (and I have not heard of calcium deposits on the bedding as being a sign but there is always a possibility). I would have thought that if the pig was losing calcium from his bones at this 'visible' rate you would have seen far more worrying signs in the pig's general health and mobility by now. Just wanted to rule that out though.

**Toadies** · #25 10-26-09, 08:31 pm

Couchon, you could try giving your piggie additional water by syringe. Mine are pretty amenable to taking it this way. If you have a vet, check how much water each pigg should have by weight, or just give an additional 3cc water 2 or 3 times a day (I use distilled water for this). My boars had identical diets but only one developed stones. They handle the Ca intake differently. If the other changes that you have made don't seem to make a significant difference, 1) have your vet do a UA to check for Ca crystals and 2) start keeping a wicked eye on the oxalic acid.

**Aquena** · #26 10-27-09, 07:21 am

I only fill my water bottles with bottled Spring water...I never use tap water. It is my understanding that distilled water is not as nutritious as spring...of course spring water has minerals...maybe that is a problem?

**bpatters** · #27 10-27-09, 08:14 am

Aquena, the safety of your water may be an illusion. There have been numerous exposes of "bottled spring water" coming from municipal water supplies. When I lived in Pennsylvania several years ago, one popular local brand was coming from a garden hose attached to a faucet at someone's barn!

Take a look at some of these sources:

www.ewg.org/reports/bottledwater
www.nrdc.org/water/drinking/qbw.asp
waterquality.cce.cornell.edu/bottled.htm

**couchon** · #28 10-27-09, 09:40 am

DalesLass, the black pig (Couchon) is a year and eight months old, and the orange one (CinnaMoo) is six months old. I am not sure which one it is, but I just assumed it was the older one. Maybe I was wrong? I haven't seen any issues with mobility. Couchon has always been not very active. Her weight, however, has stayed the same (within 0.1 oz). CinnaMoo is growing a little bit (about 0.2-0.3 oz a week), but she is six months old, so I assume the growth rate is normal. They weight 1 lb 11.1 oz and 1 lb 12.1 oz (the younger one - CinnaMoo - is the bigger one). I don't know if this gives any more information.

So, are you saying that if she drinks more water, she is less likely to develop stones? Couchon does drink very little water.

**Paula** · #29 10-27-09, 09:55 am

Quote:

So, are you saying that if she drinks more water, she is less likely to develop stones?

If she drinks more water, she's more likely to empty her bladder more often, which is going to help keep calcium from building up and forming sludge or stones. Increased exercise can help too, as it encourages them to empty the bladder more often.

I'd figure out which pig is leaving those deposits and get her in to the vet. I'd be surprised if she doesn't have a UTI with sludge buildup like that, because of the irritation that stuff causes the bladder wall. Another thing you might want to talk to your vet about, if this is a recurring problem, would be doing subcues either every day or every other day, especially if she isn't drinking much water to begin with.

**Aquena** · #30 10-27-09, 10:10 am

I understand it is a law to have the source of the water printed on any bottled water.

**couchon** · #31 10-27-09, 10:10 am

Paula, do you have any ideas as to how to figure out which pig it is? This doesn't happen every day (and I have only seen a deposit as big as in this picture once), and I am also away for about 10 hours a day. Should I separate them?

What are the symptoms of a UTI? I read on GuineaLynx about blood in the urine and squeaking while peeing, but neither of the pigs does that. Neither is losing weight either. My vet seems to have a more of a wait-and-see attitude if there are no symptoms.

What kind of test would they do? Last time, they indicated that to do an x-ray, etc. they would put her under anesthesia. That really scares me, because I know it's very dangerous for pigs.

**couchon** · #32 10-27-09, 10:12 am

Could you also tell me what subcues are?

And the older pig doesn't go to the bathroom anywhere near as often as the younger one (she never did, I believe), so if that's a problem, I am guessing it may be her.

**Toadies** · #33 10-27-09, 01:40 pm

Sub-cues are fluids, such as Lactated Ringers, that are injected by IV tubing and needle UNDER the the skin, not intravenously. The creature's system absorbs it slowly and they urinate more. It's a treatment for renal failure cats and piggies with a tendency toward stones. I do this for my bladder stone piggy as well as additional fluids by syringe. I only use distilled water for the additional syringe fluids. Otherwise they get filtered water as we are on a hard water well.

If your piggy is a well handled piggy, there may be no need for anesthesia. My doesn't get it for his x-rays.

**Paula** · #34 10-27-09, 02:12 pm

I'd ask that the vet do a urinalysis. Whether or not you're seeing symptoms, all that sludge has almost got to be causing irritation inside the bladder.

**couchon** · #35 10-29-09, 09:01 am

Paula, I called my vet about a urinalysis. They are supposed to call me back today. Apparently, they have different kinds (the main two are a urinalysis that's done where they try to catch the pee as the piggy is peeing, and they other one is where you bring them in something where the piggy peed). My question is, is the second one OK (I am not sure if you know, but maybe you do)? The reason I want to do the second one, is because I don't want to stress my piggy out AND she doesn't pee at all when we are in the vet's office. I just feel she would be under a lot of stress. I am speaking to a nurse about the pros and cons of each, but I was wondering if you have some experience.

**Toadies** · #36 10-29-09, 09:38 am

Couchon, the 1st kind is a mid-stream or clean catch sample which is better for checking for bacteria. The 2nd kind is okay for a bacteria check, but not the best. You can, however, get a good idea if there is blood or calcium crystals in the urine. Usually if there is blood, the vet will put your baby on ABs. The vet can squeeze the bladder for a clean catch but I understand your concern about stressing her out. You should be able to get a decent sample by putting her in a clean container (box, carrier, plastic bin) lined with clean paper, such as unprinted newsprint, butcher paper or even typing paper. Give her only a wet piece of lettuce and wait. When she pees, you can then pull it up in a syringe (or clean eye dropper) for transport to the vet. I wish you the best.

**Paula** · #37 10-29-09, 10:34 am

I would take her in and have them get the sample there. Only because an experienced vet will be able to feel sludge in the bladder as well and see if there's any cause to be concerned about a stone, at which point they could go right ahead and do an xray.

**JD In Van** · #38 10-29-09, 11:18 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquena

I only fill my water bottles with bottled Spring water...I never use tap water. It is my understanding that distilled water is not as nutritious as spring...of course spring water has minerals...maybe that is a problem?

This can be a problem. Find out if your tap water is hard or soft where you live. Hard water is mineral heavy, soft water is acidic. Neutral is a 7. Where I live we range 5.5-7.

You should be able to get mineral content and PH information from your local water company's web site as well as info on what their water treatment is.

If you're concerned about Chlorine you can leave water for 24 hours in an open bucket and the Chlorine will 'gas out' or evaporate.

**JD In Van** · #39 10-29-09, 11:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DalesLass

Satins have a problem somewhere with calcium absorption / metabolism. Very little is known about it yet (and I have not heard of calcium deposits on the bedding as being a sign but there is always a possibility). I would have thought that if the pig was losing calcium from his bones at this 'visible' rate you would have seen far more worrying signs in the pig's general health and mobility by now. Just wanted to rule that out though.

I didn't know this! My piggie who has slightly longer fur has calcium in his urine some times.

I have started giving my boys more cucumber and other waterier veggies at least 5 times a week to help keep them well hydrated and this seems to have helped him a lot.

**angiekay** · #40 10-29-09, 11:22 am

WOW! I've read throught this thread for the 2nd time, and gosh you girls are SO intelligent about this stuff! Just never ceases to amaze me on the things that come up here. Great advice and information!!!

Good luck with your piggie Couchon!!!!