I need some feedback on the quality of hay and pellets I'm using.

[BrandonB]

Hello,

I want to be sure my pigs are getting the right stuff.


"Kaytee Natural Timothy Hay"
Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) %6.0
Crude Fat (min.) %2.0
Crude Fiber (max.) %32.0
Moisture (max.) %12.0
Calcium (min.) %0.25
Calcium (max.) %0.75

Ingredients:
Natural Sun-cured timothy hay.

--------------------------------

"Kaytee Timothy Complete"
Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) %14.0
Crude Fat (min.) %2.0
Crude Fiber (max.) %22.0
Moisture (max.) %12.0
Ascorbic Acid (min.) 100mg/lb

Ingredients:
Sun-cured timothy grass hay, Wheat Middlings, Ground Wheat, Oat Hulls, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Cane Molasses, Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), DL-Methionine, Yucca Schidigra Extract, Vitamin A Supplement, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Carbonate, Riboflavin Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Ethoxyquin (a preservative), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin k activity), Copper Oxide, Cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3), Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Monoitrate, Biotin, Folic Acid, Calcium lodate, Dried A. orzyae Fermentation Extract (source of protease), Dried Bacillus coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Cobalt Carbonate and Sodium Selenite.

Wow, that took forever to type.

[pigsforlife]

Both products are pretty low in quality, and (the pellets especially) really not that good for your pigs.

The recommended pellet brands are Mazurri 5664, Oxbow Cavy Cuisine (this is the one for adults - 6 months +) or KMs Hayloft Timothy Choice (again for adults). All 3 are acceptable, with KMS being the best quality wise. I personally use Oxbows Cavy Cuisine (cant get KMs in Australia) and could rave about it for ever.

Both Oxbow and KMs Hayloft supply hay as well. Again KMs Hayloft hay comes out top. In Australia the cost of Oxbows products are crazy ($23 for the smallest bag + GST), so I purchase hay from the local feed store and supplement their diet with a couple of handfuls of Oxbow once a day.

An alternative with hay is to find a local feed store. I have found that their products are drier and not as soft and green as Oxbows (apparently KMs is even better, if you can imagine it), yet still of a high enough quality that I would consider feeding it to my girls. I always thoroughly check the hay before I buy it as once I got a bag of hay that actually was moldy, brown and dusty.

With Oxbow their products are sold in some stores and vets but can also be ordered online although with KMs products you can only order online. The trick of the trade with both companies is to order/buy, in bulk, as it is cheaper this way. Do the math before placing an order with anyone and work out which company is cheaper, although many people find that it is actually cheaper to go with KMs Hayloft and you get the bonus of their products being better.

KMs Hayloft - Kleenmama's Hayloft :: Home
Oxbow - Oxbow Pet Products | Welcome

[Ly&Pigs]

The Kaytee line of pellets are garbage. They contain low quality ingredients, unneeded dried bacterias and a potentially cancer causing preservative (ethoxyquin).

[BrandonB]

Hmm, I was afraid of that. Ok... I'll get on KleenMama's website and order some pellets and grass from there.

[urockstar]

Originally Posted by pigsforlife

The recommended pellet brands are Mazurri 5664, Oxbow Cavy Cuisine (this is the one for adults - 6 months +) or KMs Hayloft Timothy Choice (again for adults). All 3 are acceptable, with KMS being the best quality wise. I personally use Oxbows Cavy Cuisine (cant get KMs in Australia) and could rave about it for ever.

I also just received the Timothy Complete pellets yesterday, so I only started giving them it to them for the first time... and of course, even though I just spent $15 on it (after s&h), I want to throw it out.

So I'll order Oxbow or KMs, however, I have a pregnant sow, and if those pellets are for adults, then what pellets are acceptable for babies, AND when the babies come, do I put pellets for both the babies and adults in the same cage, AND then how do they know which to eat, will it matter. This seems complicated. Isn't there a healthy pellet choice for any/every age?

[Ly&Pigs]

There are pellets for young pigs, Oxbow has Cavy Performance and KM has Alfalfa based pellets in addition to timothy based pellets. Mazuri only makes alfalfa based pellets.

You can feed alfalfa based pellets to adults but you have to severely limit their intake to no more than 1/8 cup per day per pig because of the higher calcium content. If you were to feed more than 1/8 cup per day per pig, you could end up with a pig with sludge/stone issues.

You could order small bags of both types and mix the pellets half and half until the alfalfa pellets are gone.

[urockstar]

Originally Posted by Ly&Pigs

There are pellets for young pigs, Oxbow has Cavy Performance and KM has Alfalfa based pellets in addition to timothy based pellets. Mazuri only makes alfalfa based pellets.

You can feed alfalfa based pellets to adults but you have to severely limit their intake to no more than 1/8 cup per day per pig because of the higher calcium content. If you were to feed more than 1/8 cup per day per pig, you could end up with a pig with sludge/stone issues.

You could order small bags of both types and mix the pellets half and half until the alfalfa pellets are gone.

Well if I end up with 4 new pigs in a few weeks, how do I really limit the alfalfa pellets? I need to put enough in there so they all get enough right? Well what if Bean or Marley go and start eating their food? I mean they don't know the difference. I mean I just don't understand how I can limit something when I'll be feeding a whole group of pigs, one can easily eat more than the others.

Mixing the alfalfa and timothy pellets sounds like a good plan, but will the babies get enough of the alfalfa that way? It seems so risky with the adults possibly eating it up.

[Ly&Pigs]

Pellets are the least part of any pigs diet. You are worrying yourself to death over something that doesn't warrant it.

Buy some of both pellets (alfalfa and timothy). Give half and half and don't worry about the limitations but don't overfeed the pellets. Keep a small amount of each type in the bowl at all times after the pups are born. If the other two adult pigs eat the alfalfa pellets it won't hurt them.

They MAIN diet should consist of unlimited grass hay and veggies. You can give alfalfa as a supplement.

Feed the pups a couple sprigs of parsley one day and a small bit of kale the next day during laptime. This will ensure they are getting enough calcium.

Stop sweating the small stuff, they will all get enough of what they need if you are providing a good veggie diet with a variety of things. More than just lettuce, bell pepper and tomato.

[urockstar]

Originally Posted by Ly&Pigs

Pellets are the least part of any pigs diet. You are worrying yourself to death over something that doesn't warrant it.

Feed the pups a couple sprigs of parsley one day and a small bit of kale the next day during laptime. This will ensure they are getting enough calcium.

Stop sweating the small stuff, they will all get enough of what they need if you are providing a good veggie diet with a variety of things. More than just lettuce, bell pepper and tomato.

I only just bought the lettuce, pepper, tomato today. Obviously I plan on mixing it up. Glad to know about parsley and kale though. (But what is kale?) I'll get those things tomorrow. These would be good for Marley as well as she'll need the calcium, correct? Not only after the birth but before also? I know she probably only has around 3 weeks left, so I'll pick that stuff up tomorrow. And in the future I will go with KMs pellets.

At what age do the baby pigs mature enough to the point where they don't *need* alfalfa pellets or alfalfa in general?

[Ly&Pigs]

The switch from alfalfa to timothy can be made anywhere from 6 months to 1 year of age. Preferably in the 6-8 months age range.

Kale is a leafy green that contains a high amount of vitamin C but it's also calcium rich. I always recommend kale in a pigs diet because it has so much C. Better than oranges. Marley can have it too along with parsley. Just don't overfeed it. A half of a large leaf or one whole small leaf every other day for Marley would be good. On the parsley, Marley could have a few sprigs (leaf + stem) on days she isn't getting kale. The rest (lettuce, peppers and tomato) can be fed daily.

[urockstar]

Yeah I don't know why I was worrying about it... the two pigs I have now are only around 10 weeks so they too can be on the alfalfa pellets for some time.

How does this sound for them and the babies to come:
Alfalfa pellets
Alfalfy and Timothy hay mixed?
(& of course veggies, fruits)

?

[Sammy and Peanut]

For pregnant or young guinea pigs, make sure you have some alfalfa. Make sure you don't overfeed them this. A little every other day should be okay.

[julsie]

So what's the problem with Kaytee Timothy Hay? It's just timothy hay, right? Why does this forum recommend certain brands?

[RooneysGmom]

Personally, I don't have a problem with Kaytee hay per se...it's just that Kleenmama's is soooo much greener, softer, and fresher. And those qualities mean my piggies eat more and waste less. Oxbow is also another good "brand" although it is a little less consistent in quality than KM's.

[Ly&Pigs]

Kaytee Hays are often as much brown as green. More brown in a batch means less that most pigs will eat. Brown pieces have dried to a point where they have lost almost all of their fiber content and vitamins. Some bags of Kaytee aren't too bad while others are worse. Some I think sit in warehouses far too long before being sold.

Kleenmama goes to her hay suppliers (the hay farmers she buys from) to check for quality of the hay before buying it to sell to her customers. Some bits do turn brown in the long run but that happens with any type of hay. But she ensures the best quality hay. Better quality does mean less waste. I'd hate to buy the same amount of two brands of hay but only be able to use 1/2 or so of the lesser quality due to it browning too much.

As far as Oxbow's hays, I've only used their botanical hay. It was very soft and very good smelling and tasted good too (yes, I taste every hay that comes into my home before I feed it to the pigs). Km's 3rd cut timothy is very soft as well. The bluegrass is soft but has a different texture to it.

[newpiggiemommy]

Does anyone know much about Sunseed Sunscription Vita + Plus pellet food. We were close to the end of our oxbow pellets and I was afraid I would run out before I could order another bag so my hubby ran out and picked me up a bag of this Sunseed brand. They are eating it, but I don't know how good it is for them.