Confused about/problems with diet

**daboysmom** · #1 11-10-07, 04:30 am

OK guys I need some advice.

I have only had my boys for a little under two weeks now. We are just now starting to run out of the supplies that they came with. I have been reading through alot of the nutrition section and I dont think what they have been eating is the best for them. I have looked at the charts in the stickies but to be honest its still a little confusing to me.

I have noticed they have white crusty pee spots on the fleece. From what I have read that means they are getting too much calcium. Only I cant figure out what I have given them to cause that. They came with KAYTEE Fiesta guinea pig pellet mix and Timothy hay which I have given them 24 hour access to and they have chowed down. I have also been giving them random veggies here and there. I got a bulk package of Romaine lettus which I have been giving them every day... I gave them a tomatoe sliced up and they also had one whole corn on the cob with the husks and all. Oh and just plain water. I'm sure I am probably doing something wrong but im not sure what.

If someone could help me out I would apreciate it very much. I want the best for my new sweet boys.

**-Emma-** · #2 11-10-07, 06:04 am

You shouldnt give them a mix you should give them plain pellets ! I dont know what could have caused the white spots ?

**Jenni_Feathers** · #3 11-10-07, 07:26 am

I am not sure what would cause the white spots but you should not feed unlimited pellets, and you should feed a plain pellet such Oxbow. Kleenmama's or Mazuri 5664.

Are the white spots gritty, if so they could mean they have bladder stones, are the spots smooth or are they sorta sand like, it may be easier to tell if they are not on the fleece and are on a smooth surface.

**Fluffy_Guinea** · #4 11-10-07, 11:02 am

You really shouldn't give your pigs mixes most of the stuff in it is to high and sugar and can cause obesity and most of the nuts, seeds and etc are choking hazards as well. Yes if the white spots are gritty then they could have bladder stones. I'm not sure what could have caused the white spots though maybe there's to much calcium in the mix. Here is a good page on bladder stones and if any of your pigs are showing any of these signs get your pig to a vet ASAP! If you don't have a vet get one very soon here's another page on finding a vet.

Guinea Lynx :: Bladder Stones
Guinea Lynx :: Finding a Veterinarian

**Ly&Pigs** · #5 11-10-07, 11:04 am

The pellet mix is a likely culprit. As has been stated, they need a good quality plain pellet. Seeds, nuts and colored bits only provide choking hazards and cause obesity. Kaytee feeds also use low quality ingredients and contains a potentially cancer causing preservative called Ethoxyquin. They should be avoided.

You need to provide a cup each of veggies per day. Corn isn't very nutritious and a whole cob is too much for 2 pigs. For 2 pigs no more than about 1/3 of a cob is sufficient. Corn shouldn't be fed more than once per week although the husks and silks can be fed daily.

When you look at the charts, the things in yellow can pretty much be fed on a daily basis. Start with 2-3 things from the yellow list first like lettuce, cilantro and bell pepper. Then add in other things in rotation. Also look at the sample menus. They are really helpful.

**daboysmom** · #6 11-10-07, 11:50 am

Quote:

The pellet mix is a likely culprit. As has been stated, they need a good quality plain pellet. Seeds, nuts and colored bits only provide choking hazards and cause obesity. Kaytee feeds also use low quality ingredients and contains a potentially cancer causing preservative called Ethoxyquin. They should be avoided.

Ok...so basicly the KAYTEE stuff for them is the equal to feeding a dog Alpo or Ol Roy... lovely! OK that will be changed asap! Does that go for the hay as well because that is the brand of hay we have too.

Quote:

I am not sure what would cause the white spots but you should not feed unlimited pellets, and you should feed a plain pellet such Oxbow. Kleenmama's or Mazuri 5664.

Oh I'm sorry if I wasnt clear. I didnt mean unlimited pellets just unlimited hay. The pellets they have actually had one full cup between them each day. This morning actually was the last of it so thats done with.

Quote:

Yes if the white spots are gritty then they could have bladder stones. I'm not sure what could have caused the white spots though maybe there's to much calcium in the mix.

I certainly hope that isnt the case. I just looked at the Fiesta mix and its main/first ingredient is Alfalfa meal. Maybe thats it.

**Ly&Pigs** · #7 11-10-07, 11:58 am

Kaytee hay is fine albeit it is more expensive and has more brown bits in it than buying better hay in bulk from sources like Oxbow or KM's. It's the pellets that need to be avoided. If you want to switch then go with either Oxbow, Kleenmama's (KM's) or Mazuri 5664.

Do you know if your boys are under or over 6 months old?

**daboysmom** · #8 11-10-07, 12:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ly&Pigs

Kaytee hay is fine albeit it is more expensive and has more brown bits in it than buying better hay in bulk from sources like Oxbow or KM's. It's the pellets that need to be avoided. If you want to switch then go with either Oxbow, Kleenmama's (KM's) or Mazuri 5664.

Do you know if your boys are under or over 6 months old?

Yeah we are just trying to get it all sorted out on what and where we will buy supplies. We adopted them 2 weeks ago and I just now settled on a cage shape hehe.

The paper I have from the person I adopted them from says they are both a little over a year old.

**Ly&Pigs** · #9 11-11-07, 11:40 am

If they are over a year old and having problems with calcium spots you definately want to feed a timothy hay based plain pellet such as Oxbow's Cavy Cuisine or KM's Timothy Choice and give them limited portions. They need no more than 1/4 cup each per day. Cavies over 6 months should always get limited pellets ranging from 1/8-1/4 cup per day.

**daboysmom** · #10 11-14-07, 04:11 am

Ok guys I cut out the other Fiesta crud completly the other day. Never again will that stuff be in our home. I just gave them veggies and hay for a day or so and guess what? The white pee spots are faded. You can still faintly see little spots where they have peed but it isnt gritty like before. I think it is back to normal.

Tonight I went pellet shopping. Unfortunatly the feed store I usually go for everything else didnt have anything good for pigs. It was already late so I had to resort to Petsmart. I looked at all of their pellets for the pigs and I only found one with Timothy hay as the main ingredient. It happens to be KAYTEE though. The good news is that its just plain pellets.

This should last long enough for me to figure out where to go to get something better. I really dont want to order online because of the shipping costs involved. I have many pets and we also always have rescue/fosters in our home as well so we are on a budget. I may resort to that if I dont find something decently priced around town though. Right now I am just getting a feel for the cost of everything pig related.

**Toadies** · #11 11-14-07, 08:01 am

Hi! I used to have my boys on Petsmarts Gold formula, which doesn't have the dried fruit like Kaytee, but it still is not the best. I just recently ordered from Oxbow and it wasn't too bad cost-wise. The advantage is that it is a better quality food and will forstall or eliminate health problems due to non-optimal nutrition. It may be more economical if less is wasted (I threw out alot of the petstore stuff). I have also ordered timothy 3rd cut from KM and the price per pound works out to be at or less than the pet store bags. AND it is soft and sweet smelling. The owner of KM Hayloft is also a great lady. I understand the the need to be economical, as I have 11 pets, but I try to get the best that I can afford because I know that it will help keep them as healthy as possible.

**Ly&Pigs** · #12 11-14-07, 03:20 pm

I had a feeling it was the pellet mix. As I said before Kaytee foods are low quality garbage. If you have feedstores near you, maybe you could find the Mazuri 5664 or check with vet offices to see if they carry or can get you Oxbow.

If you order in bulk online, the initial cost may be higher but in the long run you will save money. It looks like you are closer to KM as you are in TX and she is in Washington State. If you compare the costs of the small bags of food to a 25lb. bag + shipping, I bet it would come out cheaper to get the larger bag. You can store pellets in freezer bags in the freezer for up to 1 year.

**ctinaw** · #13 11-14-07, 10:43 pm

Even with shipping, ordering online in bulk will end up saving you money. I order my hay from Kleenmama's in bulk. Their hay is just lovely - and I will save SO much money by buying my 25 lbs of hay in bulk than going and buying a little package every week. The quality is also unbeatable when ordering direct. I highly recommend kleenmama's and I won't feed my pigs any other hay now.

About my pellets - I also started out with a bad one - it looked plain so I thought I was safe but when I compared the ingredients to the pellet info on guinea lynx I was horrified. Pretty much every bad thing they listed was in that food even though it had a deceptively plain look to it - it was horrible for them. Well I got my oxbow pellets after that. I found a seller - believe it or not - at the pet supply across the street - so I was very lucky. You could try to call around and maybe you can find a seller not too far from where you live. Well I made the mistake of putting the old "bad" food under the cage (I built it with storage underneath for supplies). My hubby fed the pigs this morning and for some reason fed them that stuff. Well they didn't eat it all day and when I walked in the door they spotted me and wheeked their little heads off hehe. Poor lil buggers didn't want the icky stuff - they wanted their oxbow! It was quite apparent they hadn't eaten any of it

**daboysmom** · #14 11-15-07, 02:26 am

Thanks guys for the info. I checked out a few of the sites the other day for ordering online and to me it seems like its quite expensive with shipping. I guess you are right though that the cost would even out to be cheaper in the long run.

Another issue I have is that I have no idea what ammount to order for two pigs and for how long? Its good to know that you can freeze pellets though. I have four large freezers in the house for my raw fed dogs. I am sure they wouldnt mind sharing.

**Percy's Mom** · #15 11-15-07, 12:02 pm

As an example, I JUST (literally 5 minutes ago) ordered a 50lb box of timothy pellets from Kleenmama's Hayloft :: Home. I live about as far from her as you can get and still be in this country, so my shipping is the highest. The product cost of 50lbs of timothy pellets is $24.50. The shipping was $50.64. If you add those numbers together and divide by 50lbs, my pellets come to $1.50/lb. Combine that with the fact that I'm getting MUCH higher quality food for my bigs, and that's one heck of a deal.

Comparitively, PetSmart has Kaytee Timothy Complete for $14.99 for a 10lb bag. If you break that down, it's still $1.50/lb, but you have a lesser quality pellet that contains a potentially cancer causing preservative (ethoxyquin), and you would have to support a company that sells animals to purchase it. If there is not a PetSmart in your area, you would also have to add in the shipping which would raise the price per pound.

**ctinaw** · #16 11-15-07, 01:08 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by daboysmom

Thanks guys for the info. I checked out a few of the sites the other day for ordering online and to me it seems like its quite expensive with shipping. I guess you are right though that the cost would even out to be cheaper in the long run.

Another issue I have is that I have no idea what ammount to order for two pigs and for how long? Its good to know that you can freeze pellets though. I have four large freezers in the house for my raw fed dogs. I am sure they wouldnt mind sharing.

I have two and I order a 25lb box of hay from Kleenmama's. I couldn't tell you how long this will last as I haven't gone through it all yet. It depends on how much your pigs love hay I suppose. When I bought 1lb bags they would go through that in about a week, so I would assume 25lbs will last me at least 6 months (or 25 weeks).

So if you do the math... The 1lb bag at the pet store was costing me $5.99 plus tax (this is the Petco price for a 16oz bag of Kaytee timothy hay) while the 25 lbs (at the least - 6 months of food) cost me a total of $33.95 (this includes shipping tax and everything) which figures out to be about $1.36 a week for hay. So this saves me a total of $231.60 PER YEAR.

Not to mention that the Kleenmama's hay is such better quality.

The pellets its more difficult to compare because there are so many foods out there to compare prices. BUT there are big differences in quality. Obviously most of the pet foods for guinea pigs being sold are HORRIBLE garbage. You'd probably still be saving money as stated above.

I buy the 10lb bag of Oxbow for my pigs and only use 1/4c a day for both of them so I think it shoud last quite a long time as well.

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