Pellets!?How much,which type!??

[=)Gp's Rock!]

I have yet to get my piggies and I'm new,so I'm very cunfuzzled(cunfused) So,most people say to use timothy based pellets,which I heard is very hard to find! I also heard that changing a piggies diet is very risky and hard to do?! I have been looking at the pet store's foods and there is "Kaytee Fortidiet pellets" At the Pet stores website only 2 people said thier piggies liked it,so I wanted to know if "Nutriphase" is any better!?Also alot of people get confused on how much to give thier guinea pigs! I will have 2 guinea pigs in june,so I need like a chart to tell me how much of which food every day. I am also concerned about water and how big of a water bottle to put in the cage! Should I put a 32oz or a 16oz water bottle in the cage for 2 guinea pigs!!!!PLEASE Help,I need a chart or some advice on this subject!!!Sorry about the long thread!!

[Percy's Mom]

Any food made by Kaytee is going to be one of the absolutely worst things you can feed. Kaytee uses a preservative (ethoxyquin) that while legal, has been tested as a carcinogen. Nutriphase is not any better. It is made for, and sold solely in, PetSmart stores. Not only is it a food mix with bits, pieces, seeds, nuts, etc that can be fattening and serious choking hazards, buying anything from PetSmart supports breeders and pet mills as long as they sell animals in their stores.

The two main brands of pellets that we recommend are Oxbow and Kleenmama. Oxbow has a store locator on their page, a vet locator, and suggests a few web pages you can also purchase their products from. KM's pellets can only be purchased from her website. Either are excellent choices. I personally feed both hay and pellets from KM.

I personally prefer 16oz bottles for my pigs. They are easier to hang on the side of the cage in my opinion, especially if you make a lid for the cage. You'll want a bottle for each pig, so you can avoid as many arguments as possible.

As far as information about veggies and other nutrition info, check out the Everything You Need To Know About Cavy Diet/Nutrition Charts.

[=)Gp's Rock!]

Thanks! I'll try to get my mom to order some of the Kleenmama food!!Probaly the timothy based pellets!

[rabbitsncavyluv]

If you're adopting guinea pigs under a year, they need the alfalfa pellets. If you're getting adults, then they do need the timothy ones.

[=)Gp's Rock!]

Ok,thanks I'll try to order them!!

[=)Gp's Rock!]

Hey Percy's Mom,I have another question!! What does etho-whatever it is in the Katee's food, does to the guinea pig?? Is it ok if I have just one 16oz bottle for them and Is Kaytee's Timothy hay good or does that have something wrong with that too!!?? I also am wondering when the c&c cage will come!!??I live in Florida and I ordered it about a week ago!! Thanks and PLEASE answer my questions! P.S. I know this wise old lady that used to raise and rescue little piggies!She's also going to help me too, she probaly knows alot about them,so I'll get some more help!

[NickM]

I must play devils advocate and state that the FDA has not found that ethoxyquin is linked to illness in animals. The following link is to an FDA report though it is old.

Ethoxyquin

The chemical is in-fact dangerous in certain dosages as are all chemicals on earth.

Many intelligent people claim they know the substance is lethal but many believe it is not bad. Even the FDA is yet to find that it is linked to health problems.

TO ME, I see it as just speculation at this point, but that is just me.

[Ly&Pigs]

Ethoxyquin is listed on some sites as a pesticide. Ethoxyquin is listed and identified as a hazardous chemical under the criteria of the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910, 1220). The container of ethoxyquin has a very prominent skull and crossbones with POISON written in capital letters.

Why in the world would people want to take a risk with their pets when they don't have to.

Is it ok if I have just one 16oz bottle for them and Is Kaytee's Timothy hay good or does that have something wrong with that too!!?? I also am wondering when the c&c cage will come!!??I live in Florida and I ordered it about a week ago!!

You should have at least 2 water bottles in case one isn't working properly. Kaytee hay is ok as long as it's green and not brown. If you ordered the cage from this site, then you may want to contact CCCages about your order. We can't tell you when it was shipped or when it will arrive.

[NickM]

Well, thing is..

We eat pesticides every day, along with hazardous chemicals. Heck, WATER is a poisonous substance, too much can kill humans and animals. A huge amount of the chemicals we use every day for ourselves, our families, our animals, are hazardous in some way or some quantity. I studied chemistry my first year in college and learned that everything is hazardous, its just the quantity or the interaction of substances that can make something dangerous.

But anyway...I suppose I trust the FDA quite a bit. If you read the article, it states that ethoxyquin has been used on animals for 25 years without proving to be dangerous in the correct quantity.

Here is a quote from a different FDA article

" Some consumers try to avoid pet foods with synthetic preservatives, such as butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA), butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT), and ethoxyquin. Ethoxyquin, in particular, has been hotly debated. Current scientific data suggest that ethoxyquin is safe, but some pet owners avoid this additive because of a suspected link to liver damage and other health problems in dogs. CVM has asked pet food producers to voluntarily lower their maximum level of ethoxyquin in dog food while more studies are being conducted on this preservative, and the industry is cooperating."

Remember, I am just playing devils advocate, its what I do to make logical decisions. I'm not really on one side or the other. Perhaps contact Kaytee and ask them for full details about ethoxyquin in their product and ask for full details about their research department for credentials etc.

[=)Gp's Rock!]

Thanks u guys!!Gotto go!!

[=)Gp's Rock!]

We can't tell you when it was shipped or when it will arrive.[/quote]

Sorry,I was just wondering if anybody lived in Florida and ordered one!!
I just want to get my piggies as soon as possible! The only thing is that without a cage,I uh,have no cage to put them in! I will try to get 2 water bottles!

[Ly&Pigs]

Perhaps contact Kaytee and ask them for full details about ethoxyquin in their product and ask for full details about their research department for credentials etc.

Kaytee foods aren't just bad because of the ethoxyquin in them. Many of their foods contain cheap fillers, seeds, nuts, dried veggies and other bad ingredients. Even their plain pellets contain bad ingredients best left out of pet foods. They are a cheap food by a cheap company and are best avoided altogether.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Kaytee plain Forti-Diet is decent, and so is their timothy pellet, but Oxbow and KM are superior. Most of Kaytee's pellet lines contains seeds, nuts and colored bits yet they promote it as good. They also own and operate a pet mill for birds which they sell to Petsmart. You're supporting pet mills when you buy their products.

[mommyoffive]

Originally Posted by Ly&Pigs

Even their plain pellets contain bad ingredients best left out of pet foods. They are a cheap food by a cheap company and are best avoided altogether.

May I ask what type of bad ingredients? I'm thinking about switching my kids to Kaytee plain pellets, because its cheaper, they dont really eat their pellets as it is now, and they get more veggies then ever.

[Ly&Pigs]

Not sure which exact Kaytee pellet you are referring to but I have the ingredients lists for all of them (including the pellet mixes). Also see Guinea Lynx :: Pellets on how to recognize quality pellets and for a list of ingredients to avoid in pellets.

Forti-Diet Guinea Pig AKA Animal Planet Guinea Pig Fortified with Vitamin C

Ingredients
Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Ground Corn, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Ground Oats, Ground Wheat, Dicalcium Phosphate, Dried Cane Molasses, Corn Oil, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Oxide, Potassium Chloride, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), DL-Methionine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Vitamin A Supplement, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Carbonate, Riboflavin Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Ethoxyquin (a preservative), Zinc Oxide, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Copper Oxide, Cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3), Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Kaytee isn't great, but it's the one most readily available in stores. If you have to use Kaytee, the plain forti-diet (no seeds or nuts) if decent. Or their timothy pellet. It's slightly better than nutriphase, hartz and some others on the shelves.

Oxbow or Kleenmama is high quality. But hay/ veggies should be the bulk of the guinea pig's diet. Otherwise there is one type of plain Mazuri that is fine to use.