Salt?

[mandyish]

I read that they don't NEED salt, but do they like it?

My boyfriend keeps wanting to get my piggie a salt lick but I told him they don't need one.

[daftscotslass]

They get plenty salt and other minerals in other areas of their diet. The salt wheels are sold to make money out of unsuspecting owners who don't know better. They do no good for their teeth or health, any more than it would be good for a human.

[FoolOnTheHill]

You're right- salt licks are unnecessary. Your pigs should get the salt and things they need from hay, pellets and veg- that's the only food they need. Extra "treats" such as Yoghurt Drops, Honey Chew Sticks and so on may well damage their health. Your pigs won't know to stop licking because they have had as much salt as they need, so if they like the taste might keep on licking it which wouldn't be good for them. Don't get one!
Whoops, Daft got there first.

[VoodooJoint]

Not only do they not need it, the minerals in the salt blocks (both plain and mineral enriched) can cause stones, sludge and blockages. Salt wheels and treats of any kind are a major no-no.

[suzilovespiggie]

Is this also true for rabbits?

[VoodooJoint]

I know that rabbits do not need salt licks. As far as how dangerous they actually are to rabbits I do not know.

[lapiscaviad]

Actually rabbits do need salt licks. My rabbits have salt wheels with free access to them. They lick the salt as they need it. I've never had a problem and they are healthier and happier when they do have salt licks.

[Percy's Mom]

Originally Posted by lapiscaviad

Actually rabbits do need salt licks.

Why? What does the excess sodium and other minerals do for them that isn't already present in a nutritious diet otherwise?

[VoodooJoint]

I detest when people give bad info. PROVE to me why rabbits receiving a balanced diet "need salt licks" if you will.

Here is what I found

Vitamins, Salt, or Mineral Block
These are not necessary if the rabbit is getting even small amounts of pellets. Rabbit Care Resources - Dane County Humane Society

Best Answer - Chosen By Voters
No, rabbits do not need extra salt in their diets. A good diet will contain all the necessary sodium (salt) a rabbit needs. Yahoo! Answers - Do rabbits need extra salt in their diets?

The 3 most important foods for a rabbit are hay, hay, and HAY! Contrary to popular belief, rabbits do not need salt licks, vitamins, or hard wooden objects to wear their teeth down. Petfinder Library


Avoid feeding treats that are salty or "sugary"...You also don't need to use a salt lick or block if you're feeding pellets. The pellets will contain all the salt bunny needs. Rabbit Diet Information

A salt lick is not needed for rabbits RABBIT PAGE: littlecrittersvet.com

I found nothing that says they are dangerous except in one of the pages listed above that made mention of salt poisoning, but I found may references that say they are not necessary and many that said you can use them but that a good diet makes them unneccesary.

I will be happy to post this question on Etherbun to get a better answer if people are interested in more info.

[VoodooJoint]

Look what I found on Etherbun after a little search

We had this discussion not too long ago, so to reiterate (as I remember it) the concensus was that the salt/mineral licks are not needed and can be harmful to the bunny's health. Pixel LOVED the Apple mineral lick, but Rami said it wasn't healthy (the "mineral" in it is calcium) so, I immediately removed it. Pixel's still mad at me even though I keep telling her that it's Rami's fault! And, I will confess that
she's no longer as "bloated" looking as she was . So, don't waste your money. The rabbits never pout at Rami, they consider him to be their Paladin!
debbie
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/etherbun/message/106353

Re: [EtherBun] salt and mineral licks
If you feed good quality pellets and grass hays, there should be
no need for extra minerals or salt, in fact those wheels sometimes contain
crap harmful to bunnies . Neither do you need to put anything in the water. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/etherbun/message/104340

Re: [EtherBun] lick salt
Salt licks are basically crap. They aren't needed. The only thing they do it make the buns thirsty and drink more water, making you buy more water bowls and water bottles from the same companies that make the salt licks. Buns do fine with plain pellets, plenty of hay and fresh veggies and water.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/etherbun/message/75666

While I found loads of posts saying they were not needed I did not find one (out of over 100 I read about salt licks) that said they were needed.

[lapiscaviad]

Have you guys owned rabbits for 5 years? Do you think I would have posted if I ever had any serious problems? I would never do anything to harm my animals. Hey if you have problems with your rabbits beause of salt wheels let me know and then you can sue me. I've know lots of rabbit owners that give their rabbits salt wheels and have never had any problems.

And then on top of anything you DO NOT have to listen to me. I'm just the village idiot. I never once said you have to give them salt wheels or that they will die without them. Sure they don't need them but they are healthier with them.

[Percy's Mom]

Originally Posted by lapiscaviad

Sure they don't need them but they are healthier with them.

I just wanted to know why you think they are healthier with the salt licks. Sure they might seem happy. All animals, humans included, seem happy eating junk food. VoodooJoint found actual reasoning. You've gotten defensive. If you have some information saying why your rabbits are healthier with a salt lick, please post it. It sounds more like you're just doing what you've always done and don't really know why.

[lapiscaviad]

You say that you consider it junk food and that animals seem happy eating it. If it was junk food and ate it like humans then why do I never see them use all that much. A normal salt wheel last about 2 months up to 5 months, depending on how much they use it. If they used it like you seemed to imply then why does it last as long as it does?

Sometimes the best information is not from something you've found online or in a book but instead by learning and gaining expirence. Also one of the things about owning an animal for an amount of time you learn to tell when they are feeling "off". If one of my animals ever got ill due to something they ate I would remove it before they die or something like that, I would never leave anything bad in with them.

That's why I joined this forum, to learn from people with expirence with Guinea Pigs... Things they learned from owning the animals and not just what they read. Not every animal is the same and most certainly no expirences will be the same but you gather information to help find something that works with your animals.

I wasn't trying to start a fight and I am truely sorry if I did anything wrong. I'm just trying to impart my expirences with, like this time salt licks, something that's happening(ed) with my animal to hopefully help or to teach. Isn't that one of the main purposes of this forum? To help each other?

[Percy's Mom]

True. The purpose of the forum is to help each other. And when one person, who owns rabbits, and has rehabilitated and rehomed them in the past comes up with several different sources of information that all say that giving excess salt is a bad thing and that if given a high quality pellet and lots of hay a salt wheel is completely unnecessary, I'd be more likely to ask her for help than going with someone who only offers the opinion that their pigs are happy, seem healthy, and aren't "off" at all. I agree that you shouldn't believe most of what you read in books, but you haven't backed up your opinion with any facts. The factual sources that VJ gave seem to be reliable to me.

Originally Posted by VoodooJoint

PROVE to me why rabbits receiving a balanced diet "need salt licks" if you will.

You really haven't offered anything other than your opinion based on your own animals.

And yes, with the facts that I have, I consider salt wheels for small animals junk food. When your rabbit gets a craving, they lick or nibble the wheel, then probably get excessively thirsty, so they stop until the next craving. When I get a salt craving, I grab a handful of chips or a few pretzels. Same concept. Consume until the craving is gone. That's why a wheel lasts 2-5 months for you. Your rabbit and I both like salt, but I wouldn't go emptying a shaker, and your rabbit isn't going to munch down and devour an entire salt wheel.

You haven't started a fight. You started a debate. You haven't seen us fight yet.

[fourbwabbys]

I suggest asking an exotics vet about this lapiscaviad, a knowledgeable exotics vet will never recommend them. This is my veiw on it: although they may seem healthy now, salt licks can cause major long-term problems. I'm not very rabbit-savvy, but I do know how something like this can affect all mammals. You've said you've owned rabbits for 5 years, what's the average life-span of a rabbit? Surely by the end of their lives, the effects of excess salt and minerals will have taken their toll. They may seem healthy right now, but so do all mammals when they eat junk food. Take a human, they may seem happy and healthy while guzzling down some McDonalds right now, but look later on in life. Obesity, bladder, kidney, etc. stones begin to form. It takes time for the health effects to build up. There is proven evidence that excess salt and minerals in salt wheel can form stones for example in the long run. If the proof is out there and they are not essential to live, why give it to them?

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by lapiscaviad

Have you guys owned rabbits for 5 years?

I have had rabbits fairly consistantly for over 11 years now. I also had them when I was younger

Originally Posted by lapiscaviad

Do you think I would have posted if I ever had any serious problems?

I expect there are no problems that you notice. There may not be any problems at all but it's well known that too much salt in the diet is not healthy.

Originally Posted by lapiscaviad

And then on top of anything you DO NOT have to listen to me.

I am one of the people responsible to make certain that info shared on this forum is safe and in the best interest of the animals. I found you saying "rabbits do need salt licks" as being misleading and potentially unhealthy/dangerous.

Originally Posted by lapiscaviad

Sure they don't need them but they are healthier with them.

So which is it? Do they need them or don't they? Prove to me that they are healthier with them.

Originally Posted by lapiscaviad

Sometimes the best information is not from something you've found online or in a book but instead by learning and gaining expirence.

Unfortunatly I can't get Vets to show up and post when I need them. Therefore I must rely on the info that I find online and cross reference it.

I rely on experiance rabbit people (mostly rescuers) that have had rabbits in their care for way more then 5 years and my Vet who happens to be very very good with rabbits and othe exotics.

Originally Posted by lapiscaviad

Also one of the things about owning an animal for an amount of time you learn to tell when they are feeling "off". If one of my animals ever got ill due to something they ate I would remove it before they die or something like that, I would never leave anything bad in with them.

I certainly hope you don't risk your animals' lives like you make it sound you do. Most of the time, when you discover an animal like a rabbit is ill from something in it's diet, the damage is done.

Originally Posted by lapiscaviad

I'm just trying to impart my expirences with, like this time salt licks, something that's happening(ed) with my animal to hopefully help or to teach. Isn't that one of the main purposes of this forum? To help each other?

Just because, so far, you have not had any problems with salt licks does not mean that there aren't risks.

We have heard of people feeding crap food, bedding on cedar, putting vitamin drops in water and doing all the other unhealthy/dangerous things to GPs you can think of and their animals lived a long time. They got lucky (although I'm sure their pets didn't feel that way). I have more experiance with rabbits then you, my vet has much more experiance then me and the Etherbun forum has more collected info/experiance then any other rabbit forum online. Maybe in this instance you should open up and learn a little something like you state you are here to do.

[daftscotslass]

And just because you feed the kids big bags of chips and they enjoy it doesn't mean it's good for them. Funnily enough, animals don't seem to realise they are eating things that are bad for them, either.

It is YOUR choice whether or not to feed horribly unhealthy things, not your pet's. I have never, ever seen any evidence ANYWHERE (other than the above conjecture) that suggests any small pet animal cannot get sufficient minerals in their daily diet to an extent they would need a salt/mineral stone.

[VoodooJoint]

I found this on a Veterinarian site that my vet links to on his.

Vitamins are not necessary for the healthy rabbit. Rabbits will obtain all the vitamins they need from their cecotropes, grass hay and green foods. The misuse of vitamins can cause serious disease. If your pet becomes ill, particularly if he/she is unable to eat the cecotropes, then your veterinarian may prescribe vitamin therapy. Please do not use supplemental vitamins in a healthy pet. In addition, rabbits on a healthy diet do not need a salt or mineral block. Rabbit Care - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

[pigwhisperer]

Just what I have seen, we live near a dirt road that is not well traveled, when using this road in the eveining I have seen alot of rabbits and moose licking the stones on the road for the salt. Again I don't know if they like it or if they need it, it is just what I have seen in the wild.

[VoodooJoint]

In the wild animals need to suppliment their diet. I don't expect there to be a lot of salt or minerals in the grasses and plants they normally eat so would need to eat dirt or find natural salt/mineral licks to suppliment themselves.

In captivity a balanced diet provides all of the salt and minerals they need as good quality pellets are balanced to meet their nutritional needs.