Is it Safe?: Wood with strong smell - Use varnish?

[Abejorro]

Hello,

Until now, I haven't got enough space in my house for my 12 cavies (yes, I know, I'm absolutely stupid), so I've had to "store" them in very small cages. But things have changed, so I'm now preparing everything to build them proper homes, with sizes between the minimum and recommended.

I thought about a structure like a table, with some wood strips as legs, big wood planks as the cage base, and more wood strips at the edges to contain the litter. This way I can place something (like, for example, the food and litter bags) under the structure, and save space.

Yesterday I bought part of the materials (some legs and planks), but when I arrived home I noticed they smelled a lot. I know the substances that produce the smell are very bad for guinea pigs, so I thought about covering all the wood with varnish; the problem is that now I'm not really sure if the varnish can eliminate the wood smell, or if its fumes will be bad as well for the pigs.

Another problem could be the strips at the edges of the cages, the pigs could bite them, but for that I'm thinking about just covering them with something. For their "out-of-cage" time I use cardboard boxes as barriers, covered with bed sheet so they don't eat it, and it works.


I hope I've explained it clearly (it's been ages since last time I used English!), and I really appreciate any comment that can help me in my uncertainty.


Many, many thanks in advance!

[CavyMama]

I would avoid the wood - and MOST of all, the varnish. The fumes can cause major respiratory problems.

Consider making a C&C cage -- or rather multiple C&C cages, seeing as how you have so many to house.

Coroplast is durable and waterproof. Grids are inexpensive and readily available. You can find lots more information about them at the "cages store" tab at the top of the page.

[Jennicat]

CavyMama, this poster seems to be in Spain, the materials may not be easily available for a C&C cage.

[CavyMama]

Hmmm that could be something of an issue. But he can still order the materials on this site although there may be comparable materials in Spain?

[Abejorro]

Thanks, CavyMama. Though you've given me exactly the answer I didn't want to hear.

Actually, I thought about building a C&C cage (or, as you say, several - I don't want more piggies, please) when I discovered this site, a year and a half, or more, ago. I searched for the materials where I live (a small city in Spain, where you can't find anything you need), and also on Internet, and I just was able to find the cubes in an online shop, but they were sold out, and I'm still waiting for them to be available since then...

So what I have right now are some panels detached from those "outdoor pens" available in pet stores, very similar to cubes but bigger and less "flexible", on top of the floor, which is covered with big plastic bags. To contain the litter, I'm using some bed sheet strips at the edges (which isn't the most hygienic solution in the world).

I could stick with the panels instead of using cubes, but still I would have to find the coroplast, and that proved to be a really difficult task last time I tried. And also, I would need to find a way to place everything at some height (not required, but preferable).

So, do you really really think there isn't anything I could do to avoid the wood smell while not adding something still worse? If I could use the wood I would save money, space, time, and sanity!

[DalesLass]

Originally Posted by Abejorro

Hello,

....when I arrived home I noticed they smelled a lot. I know the substances that produce the smell are very bad for guinea pigs

But what is the smell from? Is it the natural smell of the wood or do you think that it has been treated with a chemical preservative? Could you ask in the store that you bought it from?

If it is the smell of newly sawn wood it will soon go. If it had preservative sprayed on it (was it wood for garden use?) it could be dangerous.

I thought about covering all the wood with varnish

Why not use paint to seal the wood? Check that it is a paint that is safe for childrens toys, cots etc As Spain is in the EU I'm sure that all the paint will be free of lead.

[akstrohm]

I think a C&C alternative cage would work best for you. You could use a shower curtain liner instead of coroplast. That will be easier and safer than plastic bags. If the bedding spilling out is an issue, consider switching to fleece.

[lissie]

Have you seen this thread? http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/...ast-spain.html
The information is old but it may help you find the materials.
Also check the photo galleries for alternative cages.
Alternative Cages - Guinea Pig Cage Photos

[Abejorro]

Originally Posted by DalesLass

But what is the smell from? Is it the natural smell of the wood or do you think that it has been treated with a chemical preservative?

When I talked with the salesclerk about the options for doing the construction, I recall that he told me the legs wood was "only wood", which may or may not mean it's been treated someway. Anyway, it's not intended for any specific use (like, as you say, garden), and to my inexperienced eyes and hands it looks like just wood. Also, I would say (though I'm not completely sure) that it smells a little less today. I could return to the shop to ask, to be sure.

But, anyway, what is not pure wood for sure are the big planks intended to form the base of the structure; they're made from what I think you call "MDF", or a very similar material.

I think that I could obtain pure wood planks from the same shop, but, would that be completely safe? Is there some kind of wood that could still be dangerous, even without treatment (like pine or cedar)?

Originally Posted by DalesLass

Why not use paint to seal the wood? Check that it is a paint that is safe for childrens toys, cots etc

Well, I suppose that could be another option; if it's safe for kids, I guess it's also safe for cavies, is that right? But, would that kind of paint be able to appropriately seal the wood?

Originally Posted by akstrohm

You could use a shower curtain liner instead of coroplast. That will be easier and safer than plastic bags. If the bedding spilling out is an issue, consider switching to fleece.

Well, I didn't know about the existence of shower curtain liners. That should be really easy to find, but I don't get why they are easier and safer than plastic bags.

Anyway, that would be more or less the same method I'm using now, with the panels on the floor. I've gotten myself into all this trouble because I wanted to leave some space below the cages; my house is quite small (and imagine how it'll be with the 12 piggies separated in 5 appropiate cages), and I usually buy in one step big amounts of bedding, hay and pellets, so I have to struggle to find some place to leave them.

About fleece, I haven't tried it, but I guess it would not last clean and fresh much time. With many pigs, and little time, I need something that I don't have to clean so often.

Originally Posted by lissie

Have you seen this thread? ...

No, I didn't see it, thanks! The "Glamour Canino" shop is where I found the cubes time ago, but they where sold out, and they're still unavailable. It doesn't seem like they're going to do anything about it.

However, I would be more interested in the coroplast, so I'll take a look at that provider. Nevertheless, I still would like to clear up my doubts about the wood.


By the way, what I've just realized with all this matters is that I've got two piggies with a wall made from MDF wood! I put it almost a year ago because I needed it, before knowing it wasn't very good for their health, but since I see it everyday I never thought about its convenience. Maybe I'm a little hypochondriac, but now I'm afraid it could have been causing some health problems to my piggies over time. To avoid mixing things in this thread, I think I'm going to open a new one with this new question.


Thanks for your help, it's sincerely appreciated.

[akstrohm]

Originally Posted by Abejorro

Well, I didn't know about the existence of shower curtain liners. That should be really easy to find, but I don't get why they are easier and safer than plastic bags.

Anyway, that would be more or less the same method I'm using now, with the panels on the floor. I've gotten myself into all this trouble because I wanted to leave some space below the cages; my house is quite small (and imagine how it'll be with the 12 piggies separated in 5 appropiate cages), and I usually buy in one step big amounts of bedding, hay and pellets, so I have to struggle to find some place to leave them.

About fleece, I haven't tried it, but I guess it would not last clean and fresh much time. With many pigs, and little time, I need something that I don't have to clean so often.

Shower curtain liners will be safer because they are harder to chew through than a plastic bag. Even if you don't notice your pigs digging, they could get ahold of a bag and ingest it or choke. This risk will be minimized by using a shower curtain liner. I think they will be easier because you will only need 1-2 for a decent sized-cage, so you don't have to lay down many plastic bags. It will just be one continuous surface. They are pretty cheap and easy to find as well.

Most people change the fleece once a week--the same as bedding. As long as your cage is the proper size and you prepare and use the fleece properly (you can't just put it in the cage), it does not smell and it stays dry and clean. Read the sticky called the Fleece Project for details. It tells you all you need to know. It will be far cheaper than bedding for you since you have so many pigs.

With a C&C alternative cage you should still be able to make a lower level for storage.

[Abejorro]

Oh, I see, akstrohm, thanks. The bags I use are very big garbage bags, cut in half, so it's not so easy for the piggies to find an edge they can chew, and also they can't choke. But I suppose the liners are bigger, so I'll have to take a look at them.

I'll also read the fleece thread; since I've never tried it, my thoughts may be wrong.

Thanks.

[Abejorro]

Can't anybody help me? I just need to know if there's something I can apply to the wood (or if "safe-for-children" paint, as DalesLass suggested, could properly seal the wood), or if I should search for any other kind of wood for the base. I apologize if I'm too impatient, but I really need to finish the cages once and for all, in a psychological way (for reasons beyond the scope of this thread).

[DalesLass]

You could use gloss paint to seal the wood. Yes, it smells but it is possible to buy “Low VOC” (Volatile Organic Compounds) paint. These paints are water based - or at least have more water and less of the chemicals in than the normal paints.

The MDF could be sealed. I found this link about sealer on a reptile forum and they were talking about sealing MDF for reptile enclosures.

Rustins MDF Sealer

I know that Rustins paints and wood treatments are available easily in UK – you may be able to get them in Spain or get something similar. It says that it complies with the children’s toys regulations.

[Toadies]

I just checked out the Rustin site and it looks like a pretty good solution. It seems that the key is letting it dry thoroughly before using for the "kids", preferably in an outdoor location, I would think, if at all possible. I'm used to being able to find what I need with not an extraordinary amount of effort. When I read posts from other countries, I appreciate the effort that other slaves exert to give their GPs the best that they can find. I'm also struck by how resourceful they can be.

[Slave to the Wheek]

I'm having trouble imagining how your completed project would look. Are you thinking of making something like a 'drawer' base with wooden sides on it and then putting the caging on the edges? Otherwise how would you keep the bedding from getting kicked all over the house?

I don't want to assume anything, so I want to make sure you've seen some important pages that are filled with information that T. has created and
filled with lessons learned by others.

C&C Cages - Types and Styles
How to Make a C&C Cage
Main Index - Guinea Pig Cage Photos


You talk about using 'planking' but planking might not be what you are thinking of, since planking would be a very difficult, and VERY expensive option since it consists of wood cut into skinny strips and are usually used for wood flooring. Making a 'plank' flooring would be ridiculously hard as well as a poor flooring option.

Are you actually talking about using 'plywood' for the flooring? Plywood looks like this: (this is actually Birch Plywood)



Personally, I recommend tossing the whole idea of having wood ..at least for the flooring. If you insist on using the wood, consider covering it with vinyl flooring or a heavy duty shower curtain.

I'm suprised that nobody has suggested using inexpensive "vinyl flooring" or "linoleum" flooring INSTEAD OF wooden flooring altogether. Many people use vinyl flooring aka "linoleum" INSTEAD of coroplast/corex with great success. Pigs kept in an appropriate sized cage, with unlimited hay shouldn't have issues with chewing. I have 3 boars and none of them are interested in chewing anything besides their hay.

There is a thread somewhere that shows how one lady used it. The trick is to use the VERY cheap/inexpensive linoloeum that is very soft. The floor itself can be wood or wire, with the linoleum laid over the top. The sides can formed and cut at the corners the same or similar to the way we do with coroplast.

Here is a youtube video that kind of shows you what vinyl flooring is. However..the kind they are showing at the opening is the better quality stuff and harder to work with to bend and cut to fit inside a cage.

Click Here --> YouTube - my lino # 2

Here is the gallery showing how this flooring could be used for a cage floor:
Click Here -> Cavy Cages - Linoleum Base

You should be able to find "PRECUT" vinyl flooring from a nearby home center...if not call around to local flooring stores to see if they can help you with 'remnants' that are leftovers from jobs.

Shower Curtain Liners are a less than perfect and less expensive option, but they also are more trouble to work with and have to be replaced. In addition you can't really lay the shower curtain over top the metal grids without it poking through etc..and need to lay it on something that is stiff or sturdy of enough to keep the liner from tearing. You have to constantly mess with it to keep it from getting torn or wrinkled etc.

Wood comes in many types. MDF is actually not a type of wood. It's a combination of glue and sawdust that they mold together to make a paintable product.

Since MDF is a very porous product it is not a good idea at all for guinea pig flooring, as the urine would quickly not only absorb and create odors, it would also disintegrate the MDF. Just for reference MDF stands for: "Medium Density Fiber". Plus I would be leary of the combination of urine and the glue used to bind the mdf together. Paint would only last a short time.

IMHO:
By taking the time to locate a local coroplast provider (chances are good that SOMEONE carries it in a nearby city, and if not can be ordered and have it shipped to you from somewhere in spain) you solve SOOOooo many problems. For one thing, its' sturdy but LIGHTWEIGHT allowing you to move the cages and dissemble them quickly and easily. The time and effort involved in looking for other options are probably going to even out. Coroplast or Correx as it's called in Europe, is used by nearly every business, and EVERY sign making business carries it in bulk... They use it to make everything since it's basically "Corugated Plastic" and is nothing but "Plastic Cardboard"


Please let me know if this helps you and if you have any more questions. While you are waiting for answers you should also be looking very closely at the guinea pig cages photo gallery. You'll notice that everyone who started with wooden cages, eventually realize that it's just not the best solution compared to Cubes and Coroplast.

[Abejorro]

Thanks a lot for the info, DalesLass!


Slave to the Wheek, first of all many thanks for your answer. Yes, I was thinking about something similar to a drawer. But of course the floor wouldn't be the wood; I planned to put something between it and the litter (as well as in the edges) - it could be plastic bags, curtain liners, coroplast, etc. But last time I searched in spanish forums, when people asked about coroplast they didn't got any helpful answer, so that's why I discarded it long time ago, and I didn't know about any alternative.

(About "planking", nope, that wasn't what I was refering to, maybe I didn't use the correct english word. It would be just several big pieces of wood that the shop cut for me, with around two or three centimeters of thickness (around one inch). And, sorry, I can't see the image you've posted.).

But even if I had coroplast, or any alternative, I would still need a sturdy base. The problem is that when I had all the measurements done (something which was a BIG headache, believe me), and I had the materials in home and I was eager to start, I found that I didn't thought about the fumes of the wood and the possible negative impact in the helth of guinea pigs (URIs, etc.); I think that would be the only problem here (or at least the biggest one).

So that's the reason of my questions. I mean, I can search for other ways of doing it, but since I've already got materials that fit perfectly (not all of them, but I can easily obtain the rest), I just need the way of avoiding their problem. But if I can't do it easily, or completely, I'll discard what I have and search for something different. Though, you know, I'm not exactly what you would call a "handyman", so I'm a little lost .


For now, I think I'm going to ask in a good shop about the safe paint, and also try to find more ideas in the gallery. With your help I feel the solution is approaching, so many thanks to all.

[Abejorro]

Hi again,

At the end I've throwed away the idea of the wood, and I'll use some plastic shelves. I can't believe I didn't thought about them before: though I still have to try them tomorrow, they seem to have been made on purpose for what I want, but I just was blind.

I've also found a shop that could sell me some linoleum leftovers for a suposedly good price, though it's too tight and I would need to stick some pieces together. I don't like the idea too much, so I'm right now searching for places where I could obtain Coroplast, but it's being a very difficult task. I've made a list of shops in my city where I can ask (no luck yet), and some more in the rest of Spain, though I don't know if they can send it here. At least I could post a thread with the info, in case any spanish find it useful.

And I think I'll try fleece for the bedding, since I did an estimation of the costs for a generous layer of Carefresh (I'm not sure if I can trust in the wood shavings available), and... ouch!


I'm really tired, I hope the little boys like the new homes or I'll leave the whole house for them and I'll just go far away...