Dog Safe Cage? Any Ideas?

[hayley411]

I have never heard of a vibrating collar if I had I would have gotten one of those instead. Does anyone know where to get one of those?

[crazywiggy]

I would definately recommend training the dog how to behave around piggies. Teach her an appropriate behaviour, such as lying down watching you, when she is near the piggy cage. Use lots of rewards.

Let me make this perfectly clear SHOCK COLLARS ARE NOT TRAINING!!!!
Shock collars cause shock, pain and fear. They are abusive and unnecessary.

Even if you are happy to use violence to train your pet please consider this. Using a shock collar (or pain in any form) is EXTREMELY likely to CAUSE aggression.

Dog goes towars piggies and gets shocked. Dog learns that piggies = intense pain. Dog becomes fear aggressive towards piggies. Dog is MORE likely to attack and kill piggies. Please do not risk your dog and your pigs by reverting to abuse.

[i-love-nev]

Originally Posted by crazywiggy

I would definately recommend training the dog how to behave around piggies. Teach her an appropriate behaviour, such as lying down watching you, when she is near the piggy cage. Use lots of rewards.

Let me make this perfectly clear SHOCK COLLARS ARE NOT TRAINING!!!!
Shock collars cause shock, pain and fear. They are abusive and unnecessary.

Even if you are happy to use violence to train your pet please consider this. Using a shock collar (or pain in any form) is EXTREMELY likely to CAUSE aggression.

Dog goes towars piggies and gets shocked. Dog learns that piggies = intense pain. Dog becomes fear aggressive towards piggies. Dog is MORE likely to attack and kill piggies. Please do not risk your dog and your pigs by reverting to abuse.

Thats what Im on about when I go about the vibrating collars the vibrating collars dont cause pain. Ask cesar miller (or millan) He he he.

[crazywiggy]

Firstly, let me say that I have no problem with vibrating collars - they can be extremely useful for training deaf dogs. On any other dog though I just don't see the opint in spending a small fortune on a high tech vibrating collar when there are much simpler - and free - ways of distracting a dog.

As for Caesar Milan.... I believe he does use shock collars.#

Quite frankly if I want dog advice I would go to an expert. NOT some self-obsessed hollywood witch-doctor who knows nothing about dog behaviour / training / learning theory / evolution etc, abuses dogs under the pretense of "training" and by his media attention has set dog training back 20 years.

Electric shocks, hanging, choke and prong collars, physical assault and flooding - how I would love to use some of his techniques on him and see how he likes it!!!

[dalilahsmom]

I watch the Dog Whisperer show quite frequently and I have seen him use a shock collar and a prong collar once or twice, but they seemed to me to be used in extreme situation, using these devices did not seem to be his norm... But I never seen physical assault or flooding... Do you have a link to some evidence of this abuse?

I would like to read more about it and if it deems true, he will be off my pet savy tv show list.

Thanks.
dalilahsmom

[crazywiggy]

By physical assault I am referring to every incidence of him causing pain to a dog. Prong collars, choke chains, shock collars and his ridiculous hand-nip thing are all forms of physical violence. Another "technique" he has used is hanging - suspending the dog on its collar until it uses consciousness.

Flooding is a behavioural technique. It basically means you take whatever the dog is reacting to and "flood" his senses with it until he no longer reacts. The human equivalent would be liking taking an arachnaphobic and locking them in a shed full of spiders and letting them scream themselves out until they emotionally shut down.

There is no excuse for abuse in the name of training. Modern, humane trainers have been working for decades to overcome the old "yank and stomp" brigade. They have proved, time and again, that the old methods caused pain, fear, injury, suffering etc - as well as fall out problems such as aggerssion and phobias. They have also shown that harsh techniques are unnecessary - humane methods are usually MORE effective! Now, thanks to Millan being shown all the time and being so popular, people are going to back to the yank and stomp methods.

Will post you a link when I have more time....

[crazywiggy]

The Anti-Cesar Millan / Ian Dunbar's been succeeding for 25 years with lure-reward dog training; how come he's been usurped by the flashy, aggressive TV host?

American Humane: Newsroom: News Releases: Dog Whisperer

Steve Dale's Pet World - He Ought to Call Himself the Dog Screamer

[dalilahsmom]

thanks crazzywiggy....
some good reads.... I guess I tend to agree with most of the anti-ceasar points of view. Although some of his stuff I do agree with too.
I think like with almost any teching techniques, take what works for you and leave the rest.

Thats what I live by,

[i-love-nev]

One thing my friend has found for training dogs is letting them point at different things (ie. phesant (dummy) )

[aqh88]

I'm not gonna touch cesar millan because he isn't even worth it. His techniques should not be applied to any normal dog but only last chance cases that would otherwise be given up by their owners and likely PTS. However shock collars are a very useful training tool when used properly. They should not be used to provide pain but on a low enough setting to only get the dog's attention so that you can then give a command. Some dogs with high prey drives (like mine) get so set on something that no amount of yelling, screaming, jumping up and down, banging things, whistling, etc... will get their attention but the lightest physical sensation can break their concentration so they will again hear your commands. Problem is you can't always be close enough to touch them. That's where a shock collar comes in handy. It should never be used as punishment or for pain but only as a training aid to break their concentration off something and provide a reminder that they need to pay attention to you.

You should be fine having a dog around pigs if you are always able to see them. That I have no problem with. The problem is if you cannot pay attention to the pigs, are leaving the room, or are not home the dog needs to be in another room or with you. Best solution while your home is to just tie the dog to you. Hook a leash to the dog, and tie it to your waist, loop it over your arm, leg, whatever so you always know where the dog is and what it's doing. It has to go with you when you leave the room and you can stop it instantly before it can even reach the pigs. When cleaning the cage the dog either needs to be out of the room or properly restrained by tying to a sturdy object or putting them in a crate or pen. This is all just basic dog handling and training that should be done with any dog around any animal at least until they settle in and get to know each other. Training, supervision, and knowing when to confine my dog (such as for cage cleaning) is why I can have a 70+ lb high prey driven hunting dog, who will most definitely kill anything she can catch, around cats and small animals without really worrying about it. That and even the interior doors on my house have bolt locks so if I'm gone for 8 hours or more she is locked in one room, the pigs are locked in another, the cats are locked downstairs, and everyone has to go through at least 2 bolted doors to get to each other. Generally while I'm here though all doors are open and my guinea pig cage is open top but my dog can't set foot in the guinea pig room without me knowing and through training she wouldn't without permission. You need to work on more obediance training and especially "leave it" and "no" commands and you need to figure out a way to properly confine your dog when you are not around, sleeping, and cleaning the cage. Just making the cage sturdier is not enough. Surprisingly small dogs have broken very sturdy cages and guinea pigs have been killed through cages. Dogs have also broken out of crates and then into cages. Relying on the cage is not a good idea no matter how sturdy you think it is.

[chexxy]

Well, I think the best thing to do is

1. Always leave your door shut when you arent around.
2. Get a baby gate for when you are, and if you dont want to, how about getting a high playpen for like, rabbits, and puting it around the cage.

And training your dog. I dont think shock collars are completely neccesary from what you have said about the dog, but Im not against them totally. I have one for my dog. Its an electric fence. Why? Because its the humane way! I would rather a tiny zap, then being hit by a car! I my self have walked through it, and gotten zapped. No big deal at all. Its harmless if used right!

[crazywiggy]

Sorry Chexxy and no offence but... they are NOT humane, they are NOT harmless and they are NOT safe.

One study showed that dogs trained using shcoks still showed signs of stress in a different environment more than a year after the last shock. They can cause burns if they malfunction and pressure necrosis just by being worn (even if the dog is never shocked). They cause pain and fear, which can result in aggression and/or depression.

If you want to keep your dog safe get a fence. An invisible fence will not protect your dog. With enough motivation he will still run through it, and anyone or anything could enter your property to harm him.

[daboysmom]

Hello, I just wanted to post and say that I hope you figure it out. Also if you do choose to use a crate for the dog then please DO NOT make it out of cubes. That is totally unsafe for a dog that size. Just buy one from a store or off craigslist or something but make sure it is for dogs.

As for the shock collar idea. They should only be used as a last resort training tool. And then it is really a matter of what type of dog you have. I have Pit Bulls and would NEVER use one. But I have also owned other breeds in the past that I would consider using one with. If used properly it wouldnt cause mental distress to a dog nor would it be inhumane. I wouldnt recomend one in this case though.

If your dog is generally well behaved then just work with him/her on "leave it" and make sure that there is no access to the pigs when you arnt around.

Crates are great.

[petz-r-life]

My dog isn't allowed upstairs, where the pigs are, but these are the safety precautions we have taken.

1. A baby gate is up at the bottom of the stairs 24/7. When we aren't home and when we are home.
2. The door to my room (with the piggies) is cut in half so that the bottom half can be closed while the top half is open for proper ventilation.
3. The pigs will be moving to a closed cage in March.

You always have to be prepared. I might post a picture of the door soon. My dad designed it for the pigs' safety. We know what my dog can/would do if she got the pigs. When we bring them outside/inside/downstairs, she has to go into the backyard. My mom saw her kill a rat. That's why she isn't allowed interaction.

[Ally has U's]

I will say it until i die TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN. Not by shock collars. You could use a click trick though no pain no loud noises. Just clicks!

Anyways, some dogs just like humans tend to go a little off their rocker when they get older. But constant training will be effective. Make sure it is constant! Different types of animals living together can be possible with no extra stress. I mean how many people thought dogs and cats couldn't live together.

I do know what you mean when you say separation is not a possibility. It isn't in my house either. We are all equal and all a family. I could never make my dogs stay in "their own room." That sounds awful for them. And as for baby gates, well that would block off half he house for them to roam and run and play with toys and to sleep, I could never do it. You think piggies need a lot of space in their cage think of how much bigger your dog is to your pigs and how much space they really need to be happy and healthy. As for cages and small animals it is humane for the pure fact that so many things outside their cage could harm them. Plus their poo wouldn't big so great all over the floor.

Having a baby gate at first to train your dog back into shape is good! But you can't keep that up forever. Training will work as long as you are diligent!

[Char-x]

If you think a Pincher has hunting instincts towards small quick furry things think about a Jack Russell . As precautions we have to seperate them, I know how determined and stubborn he can be...I have a petstore cage at the moment and I have let him in a few times to see what he was like - with my watchfull eye and everything closed, he just stared but I still wont ever let him in my room with C&C cages which I'm getting soon.

I also have a rotti x alsation and she too will rush outside after the pigs have been there and sniff around, thankfully she is highly trained so if somehow - highly unlikely she got into my room I think a shout would bring her out before she even saw the pigs...

I have a gate at the end of the stairs, my bedroom door is closed when we aren't here incase she gets over the gate (possible), and open we are here and shes not interested in getting up. The Guinea Pigs could not be brought down here as when we go out the Jack Russell is in the living room alone and the Rotti in the dining room alone, and I wouldnt trust either of them with the pigs. They are alone because the Rotti could injure the Russell if they play and we arent supervising.

As for shock collars, they are definatly a last resort - and by that I mean if I saw someone using them in a situation that wasn't life and death I would have to say it's cruel. EVERY method should be tried before cruel methods come into place. Shock collars should NOT be promoted in anyway, especially on a public forum, TV etc no matter how skilled a person is in using them or how safe they claim they are. They are sending out the wrong messages to people who may not understand the device and could get one, thinking its fine and end up hurting their dog either mentally or physically.

As for Miller, he certainly is not God's gift for dogs.