I'm sooo confused....

[guineapigluver1]

Is there any truth in what this says on maternally derived infected cats?
Lifetime Therapy_Experimental and Established FIV Therapy

We are almost 100% positive that she got it from her mother. We got them at seven weeks old. The owner kept them (and the mom cat) outdoors. Within a day of having them, we noticed they had worms.
We had them treated and called the former owner to let her know so she could check her cat. She never called back.

In July she became sick and wouldn't eat or drink anything, was not really responding even if my two year old brother touched her, and she normally runs from him because he is loud. So we took her to the vet and they did some tests and such and found out she had FIV.

There is NO other way she could have gotten FIV.
Unless some other cat before we got them gave her a penetrating bite wound or deep scratch and it healed before we got them.

I'm not sure if I believe that website or not. Most other places say that they can live long, healthy, normal lives.
The amount of supplements they suggest is absolutely crazy.

We are getting ready to give her BioPreperation f3+ and some Bovine Colostrum.

[juliaaa]

I know absolutely nothing about cats as I've never even had one before, but I hope all goes well!

[Heady]

I'm going to be honest and let you know that I didn't read the article that you linked. I figured I should respond to your post, though, because my cat, Dora, has FIV. I think I have an idea of what you're talking about...I may be wrong, but are you questioning the validity of a mother having FIV and the kittens test positive, but are not necessarily infected, they're just carriers?

I got Dora from the SPCA in NY when she was 3. She was already infected and was living in the same area with other cats also infected. I got her for free because of this.

She's around 7 now. Back home, the vet I took her to considered Dora to be a carrier because she wasn't showing any signs of a failing immune system. And then gradually, we started having to get her a full dental cleaning and extractions once a year.

Fast forward to now: The cleanings are no longer once a year, nor are the extractions. Every month or so, her gums become infected. It used to be just once a year. For the past few months, she has been on constant antibiotics because her mouth continually becomes infected. She used to weigh around 14lbs and now she's 7lbs. She dropped weight incredibly fast because she couldn't eat. A couple months ago at her last visit, the vet said he was stuck between a rock and hard place and because she wasn't responding well to the antibiotics, he had to give her a steroid shot. He worried about doing this because apparently steroid shots are the beginning of the end.

It's possible that if your cat was sharing a food or water bowl with an infected cat, she became infected that way. I think it's highly unlikely, but still possible.

I skimmed over that article and there are SO many supplements listed there and, like you, I think it's far too much. For now, the antibiotics and the steroid shot are working. Dora has started hopping around again like a bunny and is enjoying having her face rubbed. I don't know how much time I have left with her, but I'm sure as hell going to make the most of it.

Edit: I'm sorry...I forgot to tell you that I hope that everything gets better for your cat. It's so hard to watch them go through this when you can only do so much. I'm glad you have a vet that isn't gung-ho on putting her to sleep because she's FIV +. I called a vet like that once, without knowing. I took Dora to him and at first he wanted to remove all of her teeth at once for $7,000. This was at the beginning when it was a once a year ordeal. When I told him no that 1) I think it would be incredibly traumatic for her to lose her teeth all at once and 2) I couldn't pay that much money for something like that. THEN he tells me that he wants to put her down because "FIV positive cats are too much to care for and I would be doing her and other cats a favor". GRRRR!!! I am very happy to give her medication twice a day and have her back to her playful self than not have her at all. Plus, I think she's happy. She's my princess

[guineapigluver1]

No, I am not questioning whether she is infected or not.

This is what it says:

"5. Maternally Derived Infection

I am aware of no studies either of mortality or of therapeutic agents in cats infected at birth, as a distinct population. It has been established, though, that infected neonates seem generally to experience an accelerated disease process and, on average, die younger than other cats. Because most people with FIV+ cats do not know when or under what circumstances their cat was infected, some guesswork is often involved. But it is not at all uncommon to see maternally infected cats developing FIV-characteristic pathologies in their first year. My own observation is that a fair number of such cats do not live past two or three years of age; those who do often show evidence of decline at the six-to-eight year period. Some, for whatever reason, go on indefintely with few problems, though, on average, these are a smaller percentage than cats infected when mature.

If I had an asymptomatic kitten that tested FIV+, if the positive status were reliably confirmed, and if I were determined to do everything possible to insure survival as long as possible, then I would begin immediately treating the kitten as if it were an ARC-stage cat. If I had a symptomatic cat that I had strong reason to believe was maternally infected, I would treat it as an AIDS-stage cat. Having said that, I will confess, as well, that I do not know how effective dramatic interventions would be, or whether they would justify the effort and expense put into them. Dosage adjustments may be needed for some supplements if given to a kitten."


What I am questioning is, are they right that most cats who get it from their mother don't live past two or three?
And another thing: How do you know when enough is enough and you just have to put them down because their quality of life isn't good anymore?
We aren't having any problems at present, but if we ever do it would be nice to know. She is just very thin, even underweight by a pound or two. Always has been underweight by a pound or two.
She doesn't eat much, never has really.

Everything I have read has said that sharing food and water bowls and litter boxes with an infected cat cannot make another cat become infected. I highly doubt that is how she got it.

What would the difference between her being a carrier rather than infected? Is that even possible that she tested positive for it but isn't infected?

The vet was actually very positive about it. She said that she felt good about treating her for it and that she had dealt with cats much worse off because of it. She said it didn't in any way mean we had to put her down.
However, we aren't using her anymore. We are going to use a different, more holistic vet next time we are due to go.

[Heady]

Agh! I'm sorry! I knew that I would misunderstand the question, but thank you for posting part of what was in the link!

I'm not sure if they're right about the length of time the offspring of a positive cat would live...but I can tell you that some of the cats that were in the area that Dora was in had been infected through their mother's and these cats were over a few years old...some in much worse condition than others.

As of now, Dora's infection is persistent, so she is constantly on antibiotics. As long as we're able to control it from getting worse, I think she's doing well and I don't see that as lessening her quality of life. She had the steroid shot, and now we have to wait. He said that at some point, kidney failure will come into play and that's usually when people decide to euthanize. I don't know how I feel about it because I see her quality of life as being her able to play and want to be held and babied. If these things change, I would feel as though she feels miserable. At the same time, I don't think I'll be able to make the decision to euthanize if she seems unhappy.

Even though your cat is underweight by a pound or two, I think it's a good sign that it's been maintained!

About the sharing food and water bowls...when I had her at her vet in PA, she said that it's not possible. When I took her for her recent appointment down here, he said to keep her water and food dishes separate from the other two because it's possible to spread FIV this way. HOW possible, I don't know. And I'm probably going to be seen as a very irresponsible parent for not using separate dishes...but we've had our Lucy with Dora for 3 years and they've always shared everything without a problem. So I honestly don't know what to believe about that.

The way our old vet explained the carrier is that a cat can test positive, however they're not infected. I suppose it's like a cat having it, but it's dormant...but if I compare it to that, then it's like saying there's the potential for the disease to rear up and affect the cat's health. I guess it would be better compared to a cat that has been vaccinated for FIV...where it shows they have it in the blood work, but really, they're not "infected". It still doesn't make sense to me about the carrier thing... When I took Dora to her, I should have asked more about it, but at the time, it didn't apply...

Good luck with the new vet!! It would be great if you would post how the visit went with this vet...if you would

[ashyf]

Oh no, I hope my Chinah doesn't have this. I took her into the vet a few weeks ago, because her gums were really red/swollen and tender (in some places root was visible). He said that this could be caused by an immune system disorder, but didn't seem to think he should test things further (and never told me exactly what it was). He gave me some clavaseptin (antibiotics) to try her on and see if that improves the gums. He even mentioned the option of removing all of her teeth! I was so shocked, she's only 2yrs old! So anyways, its been a few weeks and Chinah has lost a little bit of weight. She finished her meds, and her gums seem like they are still pretty much the same. She barely eats crunchies, but I put "wet meats" (friskies canned meat) out once to twice a day and she gobbles it up. Now I'm a little paranoid that she might have FIV? Sorry to sort of blab my own problem, but this sounded slightly familiar. What are the normal symptoms shown by a cat with FIV?

Thanks in advance, and I wish Guineapigluver1 & Heady all the best with their kittys.

PS. Heady, its so nice to hear when people take such good care of their animals, especially when an illness is brought into the picture. Dora is blessed to have a mom like you, that puts the time/money/effort into bettering her life as best you can.

[guineapigluver1]

Thanks, Heady.

ashyf: First off, I know you didn't ask, but Friskies is a horrible brand of food. If you do a forum search for "Cat food" you'll find threads on it.

Symptoms of cats having FIV are:

-Poor coat condition and persistent fever with a loss of appetite are commonly seen.

-Inflammation of the gums (gingivitis) and mouth (stomatitis) and chronic or recurrent infections of the skin, urinary bladder, and upper respiratory tract are often present.

-Persistent diarrhea can also be a problem, as can a variety of eye conditions.

-Slow but progressive weight loss is common, followed by severe wasting late in the disease process.

-Various kinds of cancer and blood diseases are much more common in cats infected with FIV, too.

-In unspayed female cats, abortion of kittens or other reproductive failures have been noted.

-Some infected cats experience seizures, behavior changes, and other neurological disorders.




That list was taken from this.

He didn't try to find out what the problem was?? I would find a different vet.
Definitely get her tested for FIV. It could be something else, but getting her tested for FIV can't do any harm.

[Heady]

**Edit! Guineapigluver1, you beat me to it! ***


I'm so sorry to hear about Chinah! There's no need to apologize for sharing your story about your cat!! It's good to have support, no matter what the issue.

In my opinion, I think you should take her back to the vet and have her tested. If her gums are still inflamed even after treatment, that, to me, is a red flag. The weight loss is another.

I know that the answer is not to remove all of her teeth because if this is an FIV related issue, removing the teeth isn't going to do anything because the gums can and will still become infected. I think your best bet is to tell your vet that you are aware of symptoms of FIV and you would like Chinah to be tested.

I think the typical symptoms are weight loss, diarrhea, cataracts, URI, UTI, stomatitis, gingivitis and other periodontal infections. That's really all I can think of at the moment. And it's not like a one time infection...the infections would be persistent.

Another thing you might want to do is to have your vet check her teeth and extract those that are loose, because I know that can cause a lot of pain, especially when eating.