Doesn't believe me!

[trump_cinnamon]

I have a friend who recently bought a guinea pig. She knows that it's bad to buy from a petstore, but bought anyways, even after I showed her this site. She says she doesn't need a friend for her guinea pig because her dogs are its "friend". She never gives it floor time, and says that the cage is, "big enough". (petstore cage). She does occasionally give her (or he) veggies, but not every day. She uses shavings, and keeps them nice and clean.

I've showed her this site, but she still doesn't change. She also believes that her pig is a girl and it can't be pregnant and was "separated from the boys at the store". How can I get her to change her ways? Should I send her specific links to the stickies? It is probably overwhelming at first to read it all, so maybe if emailed her certain important things, she would start to get the idea. I just don't want to be rude to her, but I'm not sure how to tell her that she's not really treating her guinea pig as well as she could be!

[trump_cinnamon]

She also doesn't give her pig anything with alfalfa in it, and she's 2 months. Is that bad? I also forgot to say that she feeds her pig bonanza, or something bad like that.

[akstrohm]

Is your friend a minor? If so, I would suggest talking to her parents. Or if you are nervous about that, ask your parents if they could talk to your friend's parents. They have the right to take over the pig's care, and they may be better able to deal with your friend since they have control over the rules in the house. If you don't think her parents will care, try anyways. It won't hurt. Stress how much cheaper C&C cages are and that two guinea pigs are not much more expensive than one. Also be sure to mention that C&C cages are easier to clean and that since they are bigger won't smell as much. Even if the parents hate the pig, they are likely to care about these things. Bring it up as "I have some tips for you to make the pig happier as well as easier to care for" rather than "your daughter takes bad care of her animals".

[trump_cinnamon]

Unfortunately, she isn't a minor, and we will both be graduating from highschool in a few days. How can I kindly tell her this info?

[crazywiggy]

Is your friend the sort of person who would at least consider "proof"?

If you think it might help, there is a wealth of evidence about the effects of caging, social life etc. I read most of it at uni - literally hundreds of scientific studies have been done into these issues, and they all reach the same conclusions.

For example, there is evidence to prove that keeping animals in unsuitable conditions causes a variety of health and welfare problems.
Poor conditions basically cause chronic stress. The bodies stress respone system is a good thing - it is intended to prepare the animal for fight or flight. In the short term (called acute stress) this helps the animal to survive, eg by escaping a predator. The problem is that the stress response is only intended to be a short-term thing. Over time constant (ie chronic) stress is actually harmful to the animal, resulting in a range of behavioural and physiological problems, which of course affect the animals welfare.

Unsuitable environment can cause:

Increased heart rate and blood pressure
Increased cortisol (stress hormone) levels
Reduced immune response and increased healing time (more likely to get sick and less likely to recover!)
Reduced learning ability and memory
Reduced reproductive fitness (NOT recommending breeding, simply stating the facts)
Muscular-skeletal disorders
Digestive disorders
Obesity
Increased fearfulness
Abnormal behaviour (eg depression, aggression, stereotypic behaviour like bar chewing, even self harm eg paw chewing or excessive grooming etc. Also a general reduction in "normal" behaviours)
Abnormal circadian rhythms (day night cycle)
Reduced lifespan

So what is an "unsuitable environment"?

Again, these things are facts, backed up by formal published evidence. Keeping social animals alone (other animals including people do NOT count), keeping animals in too small cages (boredom, frustration of natural behaviours and lack of exercise), insufficient environmental enrichment (again boredom and frustration of natural behaviours). All of these things are proven to cause suffering, ill health and eventually death.

For a captive animal to avoid chronic stress and all the associated problems it must have a proper diet, plenty of suitable exercise, and be able to expres a wide range of natural behaviours.

For guinea pigs this clearly includes the need to interact with other guinea pigs, walk, run at full speed and popcorn, eat frequently and chew / gnaw, hide, explore, etc.

Hope this helps.

[akstrohm]

What does she plan to do with her pigs after high school? Will she attend college?

[trump_cinnamon]

Yes, but she (like me) is commuting.

[trump_cinnamon]

Crazywiggy: Thanks so much!!! Do you mind if I email her some exact quotes of what you said?

[akstrohm]

If she will still be living at home, her parents still have control over the rules. If showing her all the evidence available does not change her mind, I would still talk to them. Good luck! I hope you get through to her!

[trump_cinnamon]

I hope so too. I feel like it would be strange talking to her parents about it, as she isn't actually "abusing" them per se. Before I tell her parents, I think that I might just try to get through to her. Thanks for all of the advice!

[crazywiggy]

Do you mind if I email her some exact quotes of what you said?

sure, just hope it helps!

[trump_cinnamon]

Ugh! I told her about this site, showed her some specific stickies, and emailed her what crazywiggy said. I told her that it was bad to buy from a petstore, that her cage was too small, and she should give her guinea pig a friend. I stated everything as clearly, and kindly as I could, because I figured she would just need to see/hear the facts. This is what she said:

When I showed her this site, her only response was that her books didn't say anything about this stuff, and you can't trust what you read online. I kept telling her things on this site, and she just kept shooting them down by saying, "Kara (her guinea pig's name)is very happy. I RESCUED her from a petstore, so it's like getting her from a rescue.

I say that buying from a petstore supports breeding mills, and cruelty. She says (and I quote) "Where do you think the guinea pigs from the rescue came from before they were at the rescue? PET STORES. So actually, if you adopt, you are supporting pet stores just as much as if you buy."

So you get the point. Absolutley everything that I say she she contradicts it with something that doesn't make any sense. She says that Kara is very happy, and she loves her more than anything.

What do I have to say to convince her? I really want to send her that video about Petsmart, but she will probably just say that she didn't buy from there, she bought from PetCo. Also, there is a rescue right near where we both live that currently has about 8 guinea pigs.

I really need help. Graduation is tonight and she is coming over afterwards. I will show her my guinea pigs' cage, maybe that will show her something when she sees them running laps.

[Sponge]

Show her your cage tonight and explain different aspects of it, like the size enabling them to move around freely and have more toys.

Explain about diets and the need for vitC to come from veggies. Ask the creator of the excellent food chart if you can print it off and give her a copy to show what is correct. Maybe make a menu together? I've made a menu for my piggies so I know what to give them and how often, plus what can be given as a treat etc.

Ask her if she has checked the sex of the guinea pig herself, and explain that books are infact out of date and that the information can't be replied upon in all situations. Explain that the mods on this site are knowledgable and have done a lot of research and looked after a lot of piggies, so they know what they are talking about, and their information is more up to date than any book.

Theres only so much you can do as a friend. And it shows that you are both a good great and great GP owner that you are concerned and trying to help. The next step if she refuses to listen is to speak to her parents about the most important things that need to be changed. If you bombard them with loads of information you could make them feel overwhelmed or confused. Take baby steps to bettering this piggies life.

Enjoy your Graduation!

[trump_cinnamon]

Thanks, graduation was one of the best times of my life.

Ok, she came over my house and I showed her the cage. She said that it doesn't matter what I think is correct, her baby guinea pig is so happy, and she loves her cage. She says that since she is small, she doesn't need a very big space. I kindly told her everything about cages, about exercise, and how rewarding it is when your guinea pig does it's first popcorn, or runs laps. She once again, said that Kara was fine. And that I can't trust everything that I read online. She said that I might just treat my guinea pigs "Too well" and that was my own problem. (This insulted me terribly, but I moved on)

But I decided that I still have to tell her the information, and maybe she will believe me. So today we were hanging out, and I told her about Ly's veggie chart. I asked her if she wanted me to show them to her, because they contain a lot of great info. (Thanks, Ly!) However, she said, "Kara doesn't like veggies." This didn't really come as a shock, because a lot of people have had this problem, including me, (although now Trump will happily eat his veggies). So I told her that you can teach them to like veggies, and eat them. She told me that Kara likes oranges, and they have plenty of vitamins in them. I told her that Kara needs veggies, fruits are just a treat, but she just said, "Why force her to eat something that she doesn't like? Kara just likes fruit. And lettuce isn't good for them. I read online that it causes bloat and diarrhea" I kindly informed her that lettuce is good, and she was probably reading about iceberg lettuce, and that there are many kinds of other lettuces that are vital in a guinea pig's diet. She said that her and her mom think that they should stay on the safe side, and just not feed Kara lettuce or veggies at all. She also said that she tried giving her a carrot, but she didn't touch it! I said that was fine, because carrots don't have much nutrients in them anyways.

I think that the two worst parts of that statement are that she read it online, and that her mom also thinks so. When I told her about this site, she said, "You can't believe everything that you read online." And now she tells me that she read something on this random site and believes it? Because I'm the kind of person that I am, I told her that you can't believe everything that you read online. She said, "Well then, you shouldn't trust that 'Guinea pig cages' website." She is such a hypocrite! Also, she said that her mom agrees with her. So if I go and tell her mom, it's going to be just like arguing with an older, not much more mature version of her. And trust me, I've met her mom. Her dad isn't like that, but he sadly doesn't run the house as much as her mom does. And who's parents don't side with their daughter, anyways?

So by now, I have tried so hard to get her to believe me. I'm getting very frustrated. Does anybody have any good ideas? Also, I'm sure that I've seen lots of threads on here about teaching pigs to like veggies. Can somebody tell me the link to one of them? Thanks.

Also, any convincing threads or stickies that anybody has read about diet, guinea pigs being social animals, cages, or just good info in general, please tell me. I need all the links to good threads that I can get. I might also send her the fleece sticky, as she is kind of a neat freak in general.

This may sound rather out of how she is, but she actually seems to be doubting her ways just a teeny tiny little bit. I've known her long enough that I can see it in her eyes.

Anymore advice is extremely appreciated!

[PiggieMom]

Have you shown her other sites like guinealynx.info and pigloo.net? It's not just this 'crazy guinea pig cage site' that promotes the correct care for guinea pigs. Good luck, I can't even imagine how frustrating it is. Bless you for your patience with her.

[akstrohm]

You could add that if her guinea pig does not get enough vitamin C (which can degrade in pellets and makes veggies essential) that it will die of scurvy. Let her know that bell peppers are a better source of this than oranges. If that doesn't work, I don't know what will. I'm sorry you've had such a hard time with her. Good luck.

[Piggly is I]

you should try to get her to take her guinea pig to the vet and have him convince her with all his vet knowledge! if its not he internet she trusts try a pro or take her to a rescue that promotes the c&c cages, go on a field trip with her!

[Sponge]

I really feel for you, I know how frustrated you must be, my boyfriend is exactly like your friend!

Last night they all jumped on my about keeping my soon to be piggies indoors. They said it was cruel. They also said I'm paying too much for food when guinea pig mix is only £2 from the local store and that fleece is a bit OTT, why am I not using woodshavings like everyone else?!

I quietly explained that things have changed now, and that guinea pigs deserve a full and happy life. You wouldn't put your pet dog in a tiny cage and only feed it scraps... but theres just no getting through to some people!

It sounds like you are finally getting through to her so keep going. This might sound a bit odd, but why not try the "I'm better than you" type of attitude. If you turn it into a bit of friendly competition on who can know the most interesting facts or the best way to keep your piggies she might take a bigger interest in the wellfare of hers.

[princesspoppy]

Sounds like you are doing everthing in your power to help you friend.Keep at her till she learns.I'm new to the piggies,i got 2 females yesterday and hope to god that i'm doing everything correctly.im just having a problem about how much food to give.i bought parsley and kale today but how much to give,? should i give orange and if so how much and do i peel the skin.