Dumb Dog

[AnimalHouse36]

Hey everyone! I haven't been able to spend much time on the site but I have a question:

I have a six year old labrador retriever (from a breeder ), who will NOT stop barking! She only barks when people are walking by or are coming up our driveway, and when they do she goes into "attack mode". She begins shaking, growling, barking, and the fur on the back of her neck stands up. Then, if they are coming up are driveway she jumps off from the couch (we have a big window she looks out of when she's on the arm of the chair), she runs to the door way (sometimes scratching whoever is on the couch), and then barks at the door visously.

Also, if your talking on the phone and say "bye", she begins barking and growling. If you open to door to leave, she goes into her mode. She has even goine as far as to try to grab your clothing to hold you back, but a couple times, she might just miss. **ouch**!!! Thats one thing that worrys me.

One more thing is that if we happen to have any little kids over, which is rare, and my mom goes to pick them up, my dog gets jealouse and begins to rub against my mom or try to give my mom "kisses" on the face, which as you can imagine, doesn't end well.

Now Carly would never hurt anyone. She is so sweet and loving and playful, but people are often scared of her when they come to the house. When they open the door she dives through then begins wagging and shaking and picks up the nearest item to greet them with. I just don't get it!

I have tried the "Ceasar" method where when she barks I give a a little tap on the neck and say "sh", but she just keeps it up until the point where I like grab her collar and pull her away from the window. Obvisouly I do NOT like doing this and my whole household is just getting fed up with it. I feel likes it's only getting worse.

Does anyone have any idea's on how or why she's doing this? It's getting to be SUCH a nuscience that if someone so much as slows down by are house in a car she goes into her mode. Thanks in advance!

[PixieStix]

First, I hate Ceasar Millan's methods. The "sh"ing drives me crazy as well. A trainer that I love is Victoria Stillwell, who has a show called It's Me or the Dog, where positive reinforcement methods are used instead of Ceasar's harsh ones.

I would keep little children away from her. Even if your dog is not intending to hurt anyone, a child is small and an accident could easily happen.

Have you looked in to training classes with a good trainer?

[dra&pigs]

I ditto Pixie on the Victoria Stillwell training methods, they are excellent. Does she know "hush", or some variation of it, whether she obeyes or not? One way to train them to do that is to get them to bark (jumping, excited noises) and once they do so, hold their muzzle's and tell them "hush", and give them a treat, whether they voluntarily were quiet or not. Eventually they should catch on that they'll get a treat if they hush, and therefore should. Keeping a bag of treats nearby for when someone comes to the door would be good.

[guineapigluver1]

Originally Posted by PixieStix

First, I hate Ceasar Millan's methods. The "sh"ing drives me crazy as well. A trainer that I love is Victoria Stillwell, who has a show called It's Me or the Dog, where positive reinforcement methods are used instead of Ceasar's harsh ones.

I would keep little children away from her. Even if your dog is not intending to hurt anyone, a child is small and an accident could easily happen.

Have you looked in to training classes with a good trainer?

Oh yes, I absolutely love Victoria Stillwell. That rubbing thing when your mom picks a kid up and is rubbing against her is the dog trying to dominate. Victoria Stillwell uses clicker training as well and it works quite well, so I would try that to.

[5guinea5pig5]

I love Victoria stillwell. I have a 11 year old black lab mix who barks at everything and even just out of the blue! Then, after trying the "hush" method, he barks at almost nothing and never jumps up unless you do the command to.

[BabyBellie]

Well I don't agree with the others here, I LOVE Ceaser Milan because his training is based on dog psychology. This is a dog that is trying to be dominant. Most likely because no one else in the house is. Whenever I've worked with dogs, including at the local Humane Society, I have found his methods work wonders. That being said though, you must stick to his method. I would suggest doing setups with the door like he does on the show while you have her on the leash. You must stay calm and firm with her. If you get angry or frustrated she'll pick up on that and wont listen. Try to use the leash as well as a gutteral noice. Just tug the leash gently but firmly to the side. This is just to break the dogs focus. You must do this at the first sign of her getting ready to bark. Do not pull back as this just encourages them to become agressive and pull forward. When dogs go to be agressive, they lunge forward and up.
Sorry for the long post but she simply needs to know that you are in controll and that you are the "dominant" dog. Once this is established it should be easy to curb any dangerous or undesireable behaviour. I hope this helps and didn't offend anyone. This really is a loving aproach. It doesn't hurt the dog and they really do crave a dominant in their lives as they are pack animals.

[Angelgal]

I'm not too sure about Cesar because well I've never seen his methods used but I know many people who think highly of him.

I use Brad Pattison (google him and you can find his website)
I have had amazing results with his methods with my Westie. Now before anyone gets on me ... I did start him out with other methods, using treats and lots of rewards but the problem is he was too focused on the reward and not me. It was sooner or later going to cost him his life (we had 3 near misses). So I turned to Brad for help and it's been wonderful. Their not as harsh as people believe, Brad himself is a bit ... out there, but its what gets people motivated. There is reward in his methods, just not food or toy related. There are a few others from my hometown who use Brad's methods and to see the changes in the dogs is just amazing.

I have nothing against any method except physically punishing the dog.
Not every method is for every dog, which is why if you're being consistant and doing the homework but there are no changes - it may be time to consider something different. You need to find what's right for YOUR dog, not what other people think are right. Brad's methods may not have been my first choice for training but my guy responds well to it, so we use it.

Have you had a behaviour specialist in? That might be an opinion to get.
I have to say, just because a dog growls and barks doesn't mean its always dominance. It sounds to me it could be a number of things, from territorial aggression to anxiety and needing to constantly know her spot in the pack. It's hard to tell though when you can't see the dog and the behaviours in person to see their expressions and postures. Videos would definatly be good to give any real advice.

[Alusdra]

My dog did similar things- don't fool yourself that "she'll never hurt anyone." You are describing bites and near bites and extreme behavior. The likelihood she is going to end up really hurting someone is high. It would be best to find a good behaviorist. Whatever trainer you use, someone in person is better because they will be able to figure out what you're doing wrong. This is not your fault! But almost all behavior problems stem from the humans reacting in a way that makes sense for us (omnivorous primates) but probably means something completely different to a dog (carnivorous/scavenging canid).

For example- we had a choke chain on our dog and would yank on her whenever she barked or growled at someone. Result? We trained her to attack with no warning. The behaviorist straightened us out in an hour or two as to what to do to make the problems better, rather than worse. From there it's a lot of time and effort to train yourself to train your dog.

[AnimalHouse36]

OKay thank you everyone for the great advice! Yes,, I have heard of Victoria Stillwell and love her show also!

When I said she tries to "bite", she more tries to block the door. I don't really know how to explain it. I will look into some of the mentioned.

My dog is really submissive and if you look at one of my threads, you'll sees he has been attacked before so we think that's why she's gotten so scared of us leaving. I don't think its seperation anxiety. She doesn't have any of the average signs, just doesn't like people leaving and I think gets overly excited when people come?

Dra, I used to try to do the muuzzle but felt just horrible! She would fight angainst it and then whine and hide.

Last, keeping little kids out of the house isn't really a problem. We know a grand total of maybe 4? And 2 of them moved!

[AnimalHouse36]

The votes mainly indicated to Victoria so I looked into her site and was pretty pleased, and I guess I never really thought about Ceasars method, but it always bugged me he had 30 some add dogs but was glad he supported so many rescues and that he advertised those Mexican rescues.

So I checked out Victoria's forum but everything seems so confusing! I looked into clicker training but it really only showed things on how to make your dog sit, or how to do things like err dang forgot the word! Gimme a sec... ROUTINES! Aha! Yes thats it they only had sitting and routines, but nothing about really using it for other things but maybe I just skipped over it? I'm about to join it soon.

AngelGal: Is his teve show the one where he brings the dogs to the monks? I don't remember him but why is there contraversy about him?

[dra&pigs]

AnimalHouse-I think you thought I meant muzzles as in cloth ones..preventing dogs from biting, but I meant like..the long part where their nose is. (?) Like...their snout, sort of.

[PixieStix]

Originally Posted by BabyBellie

Well I don't agree with the others here, I LOVE Ceaser Milan because his training is based on dog psychology. This is a dog that is trying to be dominant. Most likely because no one else in the house is. Whenever I've worked with dogs, including at the local Humane Society, I have found his methods work wonders. That being said though, you must stick to his method. I would suggest doing setups with the door like he does on the show while you have her on the leash. You must stay calm and firm with her. If you get angry or frustrated she'll pick up on that and wont listen. Try to use the leash as well as a gutteral noice. Just tug the leash gently but firmly to the side. This is just to break the dogs focus. You must do this at the first sign of her getting ready to bark. Do not pull back as this just encourages them to become agressive and pull forward. When dogs go to be agressive, they lunge forward and up.
Sorry for the long post but she simply needs to know that you are in controll and that you are the "dominant" dog. Once this is established it should be easy to curb any dangerous or undesireable behaviour. I hope this helps and didn't offend anyone. This really is a loving aproach. It doesn't hurt the dog and they really do crave a dominant in their lives as they are pack animals.

First, Caesar Millan didn't actually have a university degree in any form of psychology or animal science. I don't see the leash being tugged gently when I watch his show, I see a choke chain or noose being put around the dogs neck and yanked and the dog being choked into submission, with someone standing over him making repetitive noises. I hardly think this is 'loving' or caring, especially the way he 'floods' dogs with their fears instead of working towards realizing WHY they are behaving like that. Have you ever watched Victoria's show? There is always positive reinforcement used, lots of treats given for desirable behavior, and great results from gentle methods. Yes, you should be in charge, but you shouldn't be intimidating your dog, a dog is not happy when obeying in fear.

[AnimalHouse36]

Originally Posted by dra&pigs

AnimalHouse-I think you thought I meant muzzles as in cloth ones..preventing dogs from biting, but I meant like..the long part where their nose is. (?) Like...their snout, sort of.

I wa talking about when you like clamp their snout shut, is that what you were talking about?

[alm_nin]

A couple of really good dog training books are "The Dog Whisperer" by Paul Owens (not a Caesar Millan book!) and "The Power of Positive Dog Training" by Pat Miller. I also love Victoria Stillwell's show and I know she also has a book, but I haven't read it yet. Something else that worked great for me with one of my dogs is called the 'nothing in life is free' program. Basically, the dog has to 'earn' what he wants from you, so it establishes yourself as the leader by being in control of the resources that the dog wants. For example, before you give your dog his bowl of food, have him sit first. When you're letting him outside, have him sit before you open the door. Anything that your dog wants, you can have him sit (or any other trick he knows) first so that he is "earning" the reward from you.

[dra&pigs]

AnimalHouse-yeah, sorry, I guess I was the one who misunderstood. *sighs*.

[werevamper]

My grandma's dog has almost the same problem. Whenever she hears someone (or even something) pass by like a walking dog or a helicopter, she start barking like she's going to attack it.

Part of the problem is that my grandma doesn't walk her enough and she has way too much pent up energy. Do you walk your dog everyday for at least a half hour? She might have too much of that same energy. Even if she does get walked enough, I would still walk her before you try any of this training with her so she'll be a little easier to work with.

I'm now living with my grandma and am walking the dog for her. I'm currently training to be a dog behaviorist so of course I got the the new role of "fixing" the dog. Anyway, we are using a method I came up with called blocking. What you do is work on your dogs obedience a little by asking her to sit and stay for a while, say 1 minute, while you walk away or turn around. Make sure she stays there but don't get frustrated if she doesn't stay, just have her sit and try it again.

Once you can get her to do that, you can move to the next step. Have her sit about 5 feet or more away from the door while you open it. If she tries to follow you, tell her 'back' until she's back where she originally was sitting. Then tell her to sit again. Keep doing this until she stays. If your dog likes food rewards, you can use those. Just throw her a treat if she stays for you. Don't use treats if they distract her from sitting though.

The next step is to have a volunteer that she usually lunges or whatever at walk across the street or do something that sets her off. Practice the blocking method by walking in front of her and 'blocking' her way by walking towards her until she's at the sit spot. If she stays and ignores the person, give her a reward. If she doesn't, just 'block' her again until she does.

Once you get that down, move on to having the person walk to the door, then have them open the door, etc.

If this method works for you, modify it so it fits the phone problem and so on.

For the mom with kids thing, there a a few "Me or the Dog" episodes where the same thing happens. Victoria uses a few different methods for those but I can't remember what.

Let me know how it goes if you use this method. It may take a couple months. I just thought I'd warn you so you're not expecting instant results.

[Angelgal]

Originally Posted by AnimalHouse36

AngelGal: Is his teve show the one where he brings the dogs to the monks? I don't remember him but why is there contraversy about him?

I don't think so, unless I missed an episode.

His show is called 'At the end of my leash' There is a link I can direct you to about his show but I'm not sure the site would be appropriate to link to on a more G-rated site. However the network I watch it on is Slice so you can google that and then search that site for information about his show. I just don't want to get into any trouble by linking to something I shouldn't

I just downloading his E-Book and activity book for $31 and it's been very informative. Before that I had been training my dog with help of members of his forums who were local to me.

Many people dislike him because first of all they don't do their research to really find out how his methods work. They go soley off what they see on one or two episodes of his show and consider him cruel and very outspoken (many of the dogs used on the show are fairly agressive and potentially dangerous) but after doing further research on him myself he is POSITIVE reinforcement based, he does use praise and encourages lots of it but in a different way then most people are use to (massage, voice - no food).
Videos of some training can be found in his "Member Only" section of his website (its free to join). I also don't mind explaining some of the exerices he uses (which I have used on my dog). I get odd looks sometimes about how I do things - but I also know I am not hurting my dog in anyway (I would never use a training method that would harm any of my animals). I personally don't just fallow one specific method either ... I use both Brad's methods and what I learn in Mammalian Behaviour *behaviour modification* to work with my dog.

Any method can be abused and used incorrectly and 'harm' the dog.
But what's most important is you find the right method for both you and your dog. If that be clicker training, Brad's views, Cesar's views etc. Every dog and owner pair is different, what works for one may not work for another.

I have a couple websites that my behaviour teacher showed us in class, I can get those to you if you'd like. I believe their clicker training based if you were looking into trying that. I'm not co-ordinated enough for clicker training, my timing isn't precice (sp?) enough.

home of the Small Animal Veterinary Nerdbook® was one my behaviour teacher pointed out. I think it has some videos on it. You can check it out more . Sadly I cannot remember the other off the top of my head. I would have to look in my notes.

Explore a little, you need to find something your comfortable with and that you can understand. Also it may be a good idea to seek help if your having difficulties with your dog - there are behaviour specialists or a good local trainer. The most important thing though is you need to feel comfortable with them.

Good luck!

[AnimalHouse36]

Part of the problem is that my grandma doesn't walk her enough and she has way too much pent up energy. Do you walk your dog everyday for at least a half hour? She might have too much of that same energy. Even if she does get walked enough, I would still walk her before you try any of this training with her so she'll be a little easier to work with.

During the weeks we don't "walk" her but we play ball with her alot and over the weekend, my dad takes her to a rural area where we have a house and they run up to 5 miles and she's always out and about and she is aging so we she is a bit calmer. I don't think energy is a problem though.

Also, I think I'm going to try the clicker method but does anyone know if this would be an okay way to modify it:

Get her to do basic things like sit for the clicker and stay and such. Then move on to when people are in the driveway make her sit and if she barks, no treat or I distract her by making her sit. Then, when people knock, distract her with the click until she gets to thinking, Hey, when people walk up the driveway and I sit, I get cookies! , then move on to people leaving with the same method.

Do you think thats okay? And I can't seem to find any dog behaviorists in my area and I will keep looking.

[PixieStix]

Originally Posted by alm_nin

A couple of really good dog training books are "The Dog Whisperer" by Paul Owens (not a Caesar Millan book!) and "The Power of Positive Dog Training" by Pat Miller. I also love Victoria Stillwell's show and I know she also has a book, but I haven't read it yet. Something else that worked great for me with one of my dogs is called the 'nothing in life is free' program. Basically, the dog has to 'earn' what he wants from you, so it establishes yourself as the leader by being in control of the resources that the dog wants. For example, before you give your dog his bowl of food, have him sit first. When you're letting him outside, have him sit before you open the door. Anything that your dog wants, you can have him sit (or any other trick he knows) first so that he is "earning" the reward from you.

I have Victoria Stillwells book, I really like it. It's more for basics of training, but I think it would be great especially for a new pet owner. It has lots of care info in addition to training.

[PixieStix]

Originally Posted by AnimalHouse36

During the weeks we don't "walk" her but we play ball with her alot and over the weekend, my dad takes her to a rural area where we have a house and they run up to 5 miles and she's always out and about and she is aging so we she is a bit calmer. I don't think energy is a problem though.

Six years old is NOT aging. She's a youngish to middle aged dog. My ten year old mid sized dog gets daily walks and regular runs/play time with other dogs or else HE gets antsy (and he is a VERY mellow, lazy, low energy dog). He goes on hikes, long walks, to the beach, etc (mind you, he's very healthy).

She needs exercise during the week, and labs are often fairly high energy. Play fetch with her, take her to the park, go on fast walks. Does she like other dogs? Playing with other dogs is great to get energy out of her without you having to be a runner or hiker. It's probably not the only thing needing fixing, but having pent up energy is most likely not helping.