Pittbulls

[Jennicat]

Originally Posted by Guinea Lover 27

If PitBulls didn't pose a real and serious threat - then there wouldn't be Pitbull bans in effect.

That is absolutely the silliest logic I have ever seen in my life. I'm sorry, I laughed out loud.

Here are a list of breeds that have been banned in various areas of the world:
RDOWS on Animal Rights

1.AIREDALE TERRIER
2.AKBASH
3.AKITA
4.ALAPAHA BLUE BLOOD BULLDOG
5,ALASKAN MALAMUTE
6.ALSATIAN SHEPHERD
7.AMERICAN BULLDOG
8.AMERICAN HUSKY
9.AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER
10.AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER
11.AMERICAN WOLFDOG
12.ANATOLIAN SHEPHERD
13.ARIKARA DOG
14.AUSTRALIAN CATTLE DOG
15.AUSTRALIAN SHEPHERD
16.BELGIAN MALINOIS
17.BELGIAN SHEEPDOG
18.BELGIAN TURVUREN
19.BLUE HEELER
20.BOERBUL
21.BORZOI
22.BOSTON TERRIER
23.BOUVIER DES FLANDRES
24.BOXER
25.BULLDOG
26.BULL TERRIER
27.BULL MASTIFF
28.CANE CORSO
29.CATAHOULA LEOPARD DOG
30.CAUCASIAN SHEPHERD
31.CHINESE SHAR PEI
32.CHOW-CHOW
33.COLORADO DOG
34.DOBERMAN PINSCHER
35.DOGO DE ARGENTINO
36.DOGUE DE BORDEAUX
37.ENGLISH MASTIFFS
38.ENGLISH SPRINGER SPANIEL
39.ESKIMO DOG
40.ESTRELA MOUNTAIN DOG
41.FILA BRASILIERO
42.FOX TERRIER
43.FRENCH BULLDOG
44.GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG
45.GOLDEN RETRIEVER
46.GREENLAND HUSKY
47.GREAT DANE
48.GREAT PYRENEES
49.ITALIAN MASTIFF
50.KANGAL DOG
51.KEESHOND
52.KOMONDOR
53.KOTEZEBUE HUSKY
54.KUVAZ
55.LABRADOR RETRIEVER
56.LEONBERGER
57.MASTIFF
58.NEOPOLITAN MASTIFF
59.NEWFOUNDLAND
60.OTTERHOUND
61.PRESA DE CANARIO
62.PRESA DE MALLORQUIN
63.PUG
64.ROTTWEILER
65.SAARLOOS WOLFHOND
66.SAINT BERNARD
67.SAMOYED
68.SCOTTISH DEERHOUND
69.SIBERIAN HUSKY
70.SPANISH MASTIFF
71.STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER
72.TIMBER SHEPHERD
73.TOSA INU
74.TUNDRA SHEPHERD
75.WOLF SPITZ

But obviously is a dog has been banned, it is vicious and dangerous, so let's so euthanizing all the pugs.

Understand-a-bull keeps a log of news articles on other breeds biting and attacking people.

Punish the Deed, not the Breed!

Scroll through. Read the breeds. Why aren't labradors being persecuted? I see several dozen listings of them attacking children. (And, in fact, since they're one of the most widely backyard bred dogs and have the largest population, they can also be pretty unstable). And way too many GSDs, which are known to be territorial. Oddly enough, when I was a child, the panic dog of the week WAS the GSD, and everyone was trying to ban them because they were vicious. We had one at the time, and people would cross the street to avoid our dog because he was apparently going to snap and kill them at any moment.

Again, when it's not a pit bull, it's not a sensational news story. The media warps everything. Never do I see someone posting a story going "OMG, look, these two labradors attacked and almost killed a child!" because it simply doesn't have the same ring as the "vicious" pit bull going after the precious innocent baby.

[piggly wiggly]

Man, that is sooo many breeds. All of them so sweet. Here there was a child bitten the other day on the news. A five year old, it was his dog, but the child was jumping on the dog ( I would have bitten the kid too). It was a Burmese mountain dog mix, nothing happened to the dog thankfully because the kid provoked him. But if it had been a pit bull, or so called pit bull. the dog would have been killed no questions asked. I say 90% of dog bites are probably provoked.

[BellaOwnsMe]

Me personally I think pitt bulls are a great dog. We took two of them into our home in 1993, we never had any problems with them being aggressive with people either and if anything they were really quite shy as both animals had been badly mistreated before they came to live with our family. It was sad they were both terribly thin and the male dog had his ears cropped. It often made me wonder after all the things those two dogs went through neither of them were vicious, they were nothing but loving, gentle and loyal. We had them for 7 years and by that time I think they were illegal in our state and when my dad had to go away for work, and I had to stay with my mum, the people that were pet sitting the dogs turned them into the RSPCA where both dogs were euthanized it broke both mine and my dads heart when we found out.

I find smaller dogs to be more of an issue though when it comes to aggression, when I used to help out at the local boarding kennel I never had any problems with the larger dogs, it was the smaller ones that worried me I've had more bites from Maltese terriers, silky terriers, and chihuahuas and other small dogs than I have from any rottweiler or alsatian.

[Guinea Lover 27]

At least we can laugh at each other

My sisters dog (a lab husky mix) bit her friends son about 4 weeks ago - while my sister was on vacation.

She (the dog) was sleeping and he came over to pet her and she woke from her sleep and bit him in the face.

Personally, I've known this dog 4 years - but I wouldn't let it around my children - and since my sister wants to have kids in the near future - they are also contemplating getting rid of her.

Do I think they should kill all Labs & Huskies now? No...
But the kid's bite required 3 stitches. That's it. She didn't maul him or act on aggression to attack him. She was simply startled and awoken from her sleep while also never having been around small children.

If she had been a pit bull - this little 4 year old would probably be dead.
There are differences in the types of dog attacks that occur.

Some say Pitbull jaws can lock - many say they can't. I don't know - they are very strong dogs - so it's probably more likely they bite and latch on... But that in my opinion is the difference between a normal dog bite (which is in most cases what it is) vs. a pitbull ATTACK (which is in most cases what it is).

And I'm specifically talking about human bites/attacks... Dogs chase cats - and dogs kill cats... and many other animals... instinct to hunt and kill - like a cat with birds and mice. You can only trust an animal so much - or you're not being smart.

[crazywiggy]

VJ - I completely understand you being prejudiced. If you don't want to risk such a dog with your children that is fair enough.
But to me, there is a big difference between not wantnig to keep an animal myself, and wanting them banned outright. Personally I think horses are very dangerous. Bite at one end, kick at the other, and throw or trample you in the middle.... (can you tell I'm more of a small animal person eh?) Maybe I should start a campaign to have them eradicated?

I also know far too many well meaning people who have pitt bulls that are ticking time bombs. The love the dog and treat it well but the dogs are not trained, are allowed to act like nuts (because jumping up and playbiting is sooo cute when they were puppies) and, because they act like nuts and pull, jump, bark when on a leash rarely get out of their yards to sociallize. These dogs aren't being "neglected" but their owners have not taken control of the animal and are doing it, and their family, a huge diservice.

Thanks for including this - its something I should have thought to mention before.
I fully believe this IS a form of neglect, and that such owners - no matter how well-meaning - are irresponsible.
I would think that probably the majority of dog bites are actually caused by this type of neglect than the more obvious starvation and abuse.
Some of the recent comments here have demonstrated this quite well. Dog bit child when disturbed whilst sleeping. This is incredibly common, as is "dog bit child for approaching dog whilst eating" etc.
Spoiling a dog is setting him up to be a biter. Allowing unruly, uncontrolled behaviour and failing to provide adequate socialisation and training is just plain dumb.
So many of these types of bites could be avoided if people just used a bit of common sense and treated their dogs properly.
All the "aggressive" dogs I have known have some form of neglect or were spoiled. The rottie that tried to attack my bichon was completely unsocialised, untrained, and underexercised (and owned by morons). My ex had a springer spaniel - lovely most of the time, unless he was comfy. Try to move him (or even sit next to him) on the sofa and he became this snarling monster. My friend's mini dachshund was destroyed after biting her sister. This dog was totally loved up on my friend. Slept on the bed, followed her around etc. A form of separation anxiety in some respects and he became very protective / possessive of her. The family found this amusing until he bit the younger sister for approaching. Another case was a german shepherd. Not all there to start with (messed up puppy farm dog) but the owners pandered to it and the dog became a food-guarder. Had to be fed alone as she would attack anyone that came near.

Either way it still comes back to responsible ownership - you can ruin, even kill, a dog with "kindness".

Justin:

Looks like all that required is responsible dog ownership. Would you guys agree for mandatory licensing of pit bulls with high license fee, to promote the "responsible dog ownership?"

Take out the breed specific part and I fully support it. Dog licencing is something I have been campaigning for - writing to MPs and all that.

Any moron can turn a normal, nice dog into a biter. I want to bring in dog licensing linked to a theory test (like the driving theory) to ensure people have a basic knowledge and understanding before being allowed ANY dog. I would like it linked to a reasonable fee (not neceesarily too high) and compulsory microchipping.
I would like to up the penalties for animal cruelty and owning a dangerous dog to include a lifetime ban on keeping animals.
I would also like to regulate breeding. Have another course and subsequent test befoer people are allowed to breed. Then have tests for the dogs themselves. Make it law that only licensed breeders may breed from dogs who have passed both health and temperament tests.

To bring in such laws for only certain breeds is like saying you need to do a driving test to drive an SUV or Jeep, but not for a little car. Both are lethal weapons in the wrong hands.

GL 27:

If PitBulls didn't pose a real and serious threat - then there wouldn't be Pitbull bans in effect.

You've never seen the "Golden Retriever Ban" or the "Yorkie Ban"...

Sorry - common misconception here!

It is actually quite simple.
The public at large (ie the voters) know nothing about dogs, and believe everything the read in the papers.
The public are convinced pitbulls are dangerous.
The government wants votes - so they side with the ignorant majority, not the knowledgeable minority. If BSL wins votes they will do it.
BSL is also a handy "token" gesture. It does nothing to prevent dog attacks, is virtually impossible to enforce etc. But it is a lot easier than bothering to legislate owners and breeders.
It's the lazy way out, and all about the bottom dollar.

A similar example is that after the Dunblane incident handguns were banned. Great - except it wasn't a handgun used at Dunblane! But still the masses applauded the government for banning these dangerous weapons.

The UK is a perfect example of BSL being brought in as a knee-jerk reaction without any basis in facts.
In 2005 (most recent data available) the ten breeds most likely to be referred to the Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors were:

1) Mongrel
2) Labrador
3) German shepherd
4) Border collie
5) Jack Russel
6) Cocker spaniel
7) Springer spaniel
8) Staffordshire bull terrier
9) Golden retriever
10) Boxer, dachshund, west highland white.

And the three breeds most likely to be referred for aggression?
Labradors, mongrels, and german shepherds.

Shortly before our current BSL was brought in, this country had been through phases of which breed was being vilified. It was the dobermann, the rottweiler, the German shepherd....
At the time the legislation was brought in it was pitbulls that were the "big thing" to moan about - so they got banned and the others didn't.

If you think there reasons were based on facts consider this.... UK BSL does not just ban pitbulls. It also bans the Fila Brazilirao, Japanese Tosa, and Dogo Argentino.
Why? There WEREN'T ANY fila or dogo's in the country!!! There was only one Tosa puppy that had just been imported that suddenly found itself outlawed.
Quite obviously someone had just flicked through a breed book and picked out the breeds that look most scary.

Aggression towards other dogs / original purpose etc:

Two common assumptions are usually made here...

1) Aggression is universal.
Wrong. Aggression towards other dogs does not necessarily indicate aggression towards humans, or vice versa. A hunting instinct towards "prey" animals does not necessarily indicate aggression towards humans or dogs.
These are totally different types of aggression, with different causes etc behind them.

2) Pit bulls should be banned because they were bred to fight, therefore bred to be aggressive.

OK, lets follow through with this logic.

Ban ALL breeds initially bred for fighting. All the bull breeds - bulldogs, staffies, boxers. And all the mastiffs.

What about hounds - bred to hunt and kill other animals? Great, lets ban the entire hound group, from the family favourite the beagle, through the placid greyhound, to the gentle giant Irish wolfhound.

Terriers? Bred to kill small animals, renowned for being snappy. Lets eradicate them - all those cute little yorkies, the playful jack russels...

And guarding breeds - often vilified by the press - we'll get them too! Bye bye to the german and belgian shepherds, rotties and dobies. And don't forget livestock guarding breeds - the maremma, komondor etc.

What about mixed breeds? Now most of the dog world has been banned those mongrels could be anything! Best ban all crosses and mongrels "just in case"!

About "locking jaws".

This is a MYTH!!! The pibul is just a dog - not some other species. No dog has the ability to lock its jaws. There is NO evidence that pitbulls can! It is physically impossible!
What they can do is simply refuse to let go - and any dog is capable of that.

[Jennicat]

Originally Posted by Guinea Lover 27

If she had been a pit bull - this little 4 year old would probably be dead.
There are differences in the types of dog attacks that occur.

Some say Pitbull jaws can lock - many say they can't. I don't know - they are very strong dogs - so it's probably more likely they bite and latch on... But that in my opinion is the difference between a normal dog bite (which is in most cases what it is) vs. a pitbull ATTACK (which is in most cases what it is).

The people that say they can't? They're generally called scientists. It's been widely disproven.

Pit Bull Fact vs. Legend
Pit Bull Rescue Central
THE REAL PIT BULL--Your online source for American Pit Bull Terrier info!
Bad Rap : Bay Area Doglovers Responsible About Pitbulls

It's also been disproven that their bite is stronger than other dogs. And to be quiet honest, you're being very prejudicial since you "know" that the 4 year old would probably be dead. You really have no idea. You're forming notions on half-researched urban myths that you choose to believe instead of doing the least bit of research.

One of the children in the most recently posted article survived the attack. Does that mean that that wasn't pit bulls, since you "know" (with your apparent psychic powers) that a 4 year old "would be killed" by a pit bull?

[piggly wiggly]

What some people don't understand is the breed ban is not only about pit bulls. Ok, so you don't like pit bulls,fine. Well you let the politicans get away with banning pit bulls, then next it will be rotties,mastiffs,dobes,and so on, until we are told what kind of dog if any we are allowed.If pit bulls are not your breed fine, but look at the bigger picture, right now it's pit bulls, next it could be my breed or yours. No breed should be banned, just better handled, and I certainly don't want some politician telling what kind of dog I can have.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by piggly wiggly

until we are told what kind of dog if any we are allowed.

I got a question. Are you not comfortable with being told what kind of pet you are allowed by government? Who else is not comfortable? Just curious.

[Guinea Lover 27]

For the record Jenni - never claimed to be psychic - and that quote also didn't have the word "know" in it - so you are quoting me wrong.

There is an overwhelming amount of evidence out there about the types of pitbull attacks & the number of unprovoked attacks by pits far surpass the severity of other dog breeds. Any animal can bite - this morning - one of my piggers bit me - should I kill it? No - I didn't even bleed.

There are lots of pitbull fan sites - and personally I think all those websites are biased towards pits and ignores or dismiss's vital information about the dangers of owning a pit.

You will never change my views - since I have known pits and seen first hand the damage they can do - and I will never change your mind - I hope you never have to experience what my friend did...

And Justin -

I too do not have a problem with obeying laws & allowing the Gov't to make a general decision about what animals we are or aren't allowed to keep. Some examples: Ferrets banned in California - well, I agree with that because if Ferrets (and there are LOTS of non fixed ferrets out there) were released into the wild they could destroy the natural ecosystem.

Just like in Florida - they should have had stronger laws about keeping reptiles since they are now over 25 (and more) different NON NATIVE species virtually taking over. They are destroying the natural ecosystem and wiping out native species.

Then there are the wildlife laws - because there are many people out there who insist on keeping pet bears, tigers, raccoons, bob cats - and these animals end up seriously injuring their keeper - once they get too big or they play too hard or have a "wild" moment... Then these animals are turned lose and eventually killed or shipped off to some santuary (that's already overcrowded)...

So yes, I think if the Gov't tells us we shouldn't keep a certain type or breed of animal - then we should do it.

I have a Golden, a French Bulldog & an English Bulldog -
We love our pooches... But if we were told we couldn't keep a certain breed here anymore - we'd Move - and then - once it passed on - we'd get a different breed.

Of all the dog breeds out there in the world - why would someone insisit on going against what laws in many places say and fight over the pit issue? That I simply do not understand.

As I mentioned, the breed (and I mean the standard breed that breeders produce and not the ones bred by back yard breeders and uneducated individuals) is beautiful, they can be very intelligent and very sweet, they are tough dogs and can be good companion animals - but then again - I just described about 400 different breeds...

[Jennicat]

Originally Posted by Guinea Lover 27

You will never change my views - since I have known pits and seen first hand the damage they can do - and I will never change your mind - I hope you never have to experience what my friend did....

I have had a very close family member nearly killed by a vicious German Shepherd. She has a ton of scars, and it was a very traumatic thing. I hope I will never let one experience cloud my judgement against an entire group of animals or people.

[GuineaAddict]

Originally Posted by Guinea Lover 27

Some say Pitbull jaws can lock - many say they can't. I don't know - they are very strong dogs - so it's probably more likely they bite and latch on...

I would say that they probably do. I used to watch my neighbor's pit bull from our yard. They had this rope tied to a tree for her with a knot at the bottom end and it was pretty high up. She'd jump up there and just twirl, her body completely vertical, for what seemed like forever without letting go. That makes me think that they probably do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennicat
I have had a very close family member nearly killed by a vicious German Shepherd. She has a ton of scars, and it was a very traumatic thing. I hope I will never let one experience cloud my judgement against an entire group of animals or people.


Amen, I think you've said what alot of us are feeling quite perfectly. You can't be prejudiced against species of animals...it's like being racists towards different groups of humans. But why do I feel like we're wasting our breath with people that just want to get rid of anything that scares them?

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Jennicat

I hope I will never let one experience cloud my judgement against an entire group of animals or people.

As I understand, you don't trust the current statistics, and just a few personal experiences do not count either.

That leads me to a question; Would it cloud your judgment if you have many personal experiences? If so, how many would it take?

[Alusdra]

Where is this evidence against pits? All I have ever seen is unsuppo