Bonding: help with bonding 2 females

[Miss.Kiada]

I have Kiada who is 11 1/2 month old and our new addition MooMoo who is 1 year and 6 months old. A few days after the quarantine was over I cleaned kiada's cage and split it down the middle and kept Kiada on her favorite side and put MooMoo on the other side. They both have their own houses and everything and usually seem to be ok together. I took them out this evening and place them in the bathtub and after 7-15 min the were fighting, I read the social life page and the different behaviors and they were definitely in the second group of behaviors. Hair was raised the had been bum dragging, bum sniffing and chasing earlier before. They were chattering and rumbling and hissing. Kiada seems to start in many times (this isn't the first time this has happened) but MooMoo seems to be the one finishing it. It's very hard to see them fight and the last thing I want is a hurt piggy. Is it possible that they just don't like one another? From a human perspective living with someone for a week or so you would get used to them but I'm sure I'm very wrong. I just need some help on what to do, I don't want to take them out too soon but I REALLY don't wanna take them out to late either. Help! thanks

[akstrohm]

First, you should have done the introduction on neutral territory, NOT in the cage.

You should not separate them unless there is blood. Rumblestrutting, chasing, etc. are normal behaviors. Even if they never become best friends, they will appreciate each other's company.

How big is your cage? Do you have multiples of everything? Do you have at least three hideys with multiple entrances/exits?

[Miss.Kiada]

The cage is split so the have their own house their own kitchen and their own toys, they can only touch noses through the bars that split the cage. its a 3x3 and my original pic kiada has a 1x2 kitchen off to one side. I did put them together before I made MooMoo her half of the cage and they fought like they do now.

[Seonta]

Did you just put them in a cage together when you introduced them the first time or did you make a large floor space and let them meet first? Explain how you let them meet the first time they got in a fight.

[Miss.Kiada]

The first time MooMoo was in her cage and kiada was on the floor sniffing around it, they seemed interested in one another so I let MooMoo out (they were in the floor pen) and they both had their houses and they were good for 10-15 minuets. Kiada followed MooMoo around sniffing her bum and everything but no fighting and then i guess MooMoo got sick of it and started to rumble and Kiada started chattering her teeth and then the hair stood up on the both of them and they were sort of circling around one another. After maybe 5 minuets of that and them jumping at one another i took Kiada out, I left MooMoo on the floor in her cage that night and the next night i placed MooMoo's cage in Kiada's cage. After a day of them talking like that i split the cage in half and they I've been that way ever since. I'm starting to wonder if Kiada is in heat right now. she keeps rumbling but every time she walks away from you when shes making that noise you can see her "private" area, and you usually cant on most pigs who just walk away and I don't remember being able to see it before MooMoo came. MooMoo went to the vet and was checked and she is a female so I'm not sure what Kiada is doing. She seems to always back her bum up to MooMoo while making the noise when they are both near that bars. Any Ideas?

[akstrohm]

Kiada is exhibiting dominance behaviors.

If you reintroduce them, you need to do it properly on neutral territory--not in a cage. Read the Cavy Spirit Social Life page first. And be prepared to break up a fight. If they can't get along, then leave them in a divided cage and do not continue to reintroduce them, which is stressful and makes it less likely that they will get along. Is your cage a 3x3 for each pig? Or is a 3x3 split in two so each section is a 1.5x3? If it is, you need to give each pig a full 2x3 (or better). That extra width is important.

[Ama4884]

Lucy and Daisy acted like that for a few days when they were first put together. Now, Daisy is very protective of Lucy, and they no longer fuss. Give it time, and they will get it sorted out.

[Seonta]

You really shouldn't have separated them unless there was blood.

[Miss.Kiada]

I have tried to introduce them in the bathtub and it only took maybe 10 minuets at the most before they were fighting. Is it possible that Kiada won't bond with anyone?

[akstrohm]

It is certainly possible that they will never get along. Unfortunately by doing repeated introductions, separating them too early, and by doing introductions in the cage, you decreased the chance of them working it out on their own. Like I said before--you can try one more time properly (NOT in the cage), but if they can't get along, then leave them separated. And how big is your cage on each side?

[Miss.Kiada]

its probably only 1.5x3. I want to expand it for them if they don't work things out but I don't wanna keep them both stressed out. The lady I adopted MooMoo from told me if it didn't work out I could bring her back and we could try a different more docile piggy. Would that work or would that only stress out kiada more, even if I waited a few months before I brought a new pig in?

[Ama4884]

Unless there is blood, you don't need to separate them. Don't take MooMoo back. They are exhibiting common dominance behaviors. They need to stay together so they can work it out on their own. Separating and re-introducing is probably causing more harm than good.

[akstrohm]

Was there blood drawn?

[Miss.Kiada]

I've attached a picture of the cage right now. Kiada's side looks a bit bigger because of the angle the picture was taken and she also has her kitchen is detached, I know its small so please don't remind me it's only temporary. They can easily talk to each other and such through the bars as you can see so it's not like I'm separating them completely from one another after I try to introduce them.

[Miss.Kiada]

So last night I tried one last time to get them together. I placed 2 fresh towels in the bathtub and put them both in at the same time. They fought a little MooMoo pulled out some of Kiada's hair and after maybe 30 seconds of they Kiada seemed to submit. I kept them in there for a good 30 minuets and every once and a while Kiada would i guess nip at MooMoo when she wasn't looking but as soon as she turned around Kiada would submit again. Things were doing well for about 10-15 minuets and it was 11pm and I had to leave (I'm out of town for the weekend) so I put them in the new cage. I got new chloroplast and new shavings and everything and I changed the layout of both of their sides. I kept the divider up but only removed one cube. They walked around exploring each others sides and everything seemed to be alright. A little quick head turns from MooMoo that sent kiada running, the only time I saw anything that might of turned into fighting was when MooMoo was in Kiada's kitchen which i knew would happen, she's very protective about it. None the less by the time i left it was midnight and my parents wanted to go to sleep so I left. I put the cube back in so they are divided right now since my mom didn't feel comfortable having them together in case a fight happened and my family was out. I hope that's ok, I know it's not the best of things to do but they seem alot better together now, they were laying in the bathtub beside one another at one point. any ideas?

[akstrohm]

You cannot keep separating them. Every time you replace the divider, you are making it more difficult for them to get along.

You should have done the intro and put them into a completely cleaned and rearranged cage (no "Kiada's kitchen", etc.). Then you should have left them, NOT put in a divider. I'm not sure why you bothered to introduce them at all if you insist on splitting them up even when they are getting along just fine. It is counter-productive and very stressful on them to continually have to reestablish dominance.

[Miss.Kiada]

I don't know if you cans see the picture or not but Kiada's kitchen is a bit difficult to change around. I only have so much room for the cage. I rearranged everything IN the cage and they are on fresh chloroplast and shavings (which the were never on before) As i said I put the devider up simply becasuew my mom was not comfortable with keeping them together while I was away and there was nothing I could do about not being there this weekend. They are still able to see one another and touch noses and rub up beside one another through the devider it's not like i've put them in seperate cages.

[Toadies]

Ms K, I've had to separate my two boars on occasion (surgery, etc) and even though they could still see, smell, hear and nose off through the grids, when the divider came out, it was a power struggle all over, and they've been together for almost 5 years. What I did this last time that seemed to lessen the tension was to switch the sides. I put boy A in boy B's side and vise versa. After the sides were relatively equal in "stink" (a couple of hours), I removed the divider. There was still some dominance behavior, but not as bad as before. My boys are pretty mellow with each other, so I don't know if this would be a help to you. It is better if you can leave them together to sort it out, perhaps on a weekend or something, when you can stay close by to monitor their behavior.