Aggression: Help! aggression at 13 weeks

[Pollyerrington]

Ok, so I am new to owning guinea pigs. I got 2 girls (at least I think they are 2 girls. I tried sexing one, but she squirms so much it's impossible, the other I'm pretty sure is a girl, but I may post a pic later to see if everyone is in agreement of the sex)

Basically they started off fine, running away when we came near, hiding etc, but eating drinking and playing when we weren't too close.
Then we've seen them both popcorning which I thought was really great.
Then last night I saw what I thought was Pinkie (the one we can't figure out the sex) being aggressive towards Charlie (girl I'm pretty sure) no biting but kind of pushing her away roughly.

Then this morning, after I'd taken Charlie out to check her sex and then put her back in the cage, Charlie starts following Pinkie around the cage and Pinkie keeps on turning on her. No biting but def aggressive behaviour.

Then I watched them without them knowing it, and saw them in a kind of face off. staring at each other, then Charlie went to move past Pinkie and Pink raised up on her legs and kind of scrapped at her with her front legs.

These scuffles have been happening a fair bit this morning. I put some extra tunnels in the cage and they both went into the same one and just sat their together.

I'm confused! Overall Pinkie is a lot more assertive and when I give her laptime (no floor time yet as we've only had them a week and want them to be settled and secure in their surroundings) she runs all over me trying to be somewhere else I think. While Charlie will just stay very still and if she can find a hiding place she'll stay there and won't venture out.

Pinkie will also eat veg from my hand when I give it to her, but Charlie won't touch it. The most she's done is sniff it (she's fine eating it when it's on a plate though)

I'm really worried, but want to know if these scuffles are normal. I just don't get it why Charlie follows Pinkie around when she knows Pinkie is going to get mad. Is Charlie a boy then?

I'm sorry this has been so long but I wanted to give as much info as possible.
Maybe they need some floor time and extra space. Their cage is 120cm long and 50 cm wide with a couple about 3 small tunnels (I think that is 3 grids by 2?)

Help please!!!

[tehdoc809]

Well First off, 3x2 cage for two pigs is small, they should be in atleast a 2x4. Second, the pigs have to establish dominance and normal dominance behavior is going to be slightly aggressive most of the time, especially if your pigs are close to the same age. Even if you got two (or more) pigs with a very well established chain of dominance they will still be aggressive towards each other 9/10 of the time. Forexample, when in heat my dominant sow will mount the others and will chase the other pigs out of a hidey house if its the one she wants to be in 100% of the time. She refuses to share a house.

Some things it could be:
Adolescence (Depending on age)
Some pigs just don't like tobe followed around
Some pigs don't like to share
Some pigs want to be loners most of the time
Establishing Dominance, etc.

Some things to keep in mind:
Even if it looks like you pigs are starting to not get alone/grappling/whatever. If they aren't use to you or normal household movement yet, they will huddle together in a corner/hidey/tunnel to hide from the "threat (you)"

[Pollyerrington]

Originally Posted by tehdoc809

Well First off, 3x2 cage for two pigs is small, they should be in atleast a 2x4. Second, the pigs have to establish dominance and normal dominance behavior is going to be slightly aggressive most of the time, especially if your pigs are close to the same age. Even if you got two (or more) pigs with a very well established chain of dominance they will still be aggressive towards each other 9/10 of the time.

Some things it could be:
Adolescence (Depending on age)
Some pigs just don't like tobe followed around
Some pigs don't like to share
Some pigs want to be loners most of the time
Establishing Dominance, etc.

Some things to keep in mind:
Even if it looks like you pigs are starting to not get alone/grappling/whatever. If they aren't use to you or normal household movement yet, they will huddle together in a corner/hidey/tunnel to hide from the "threat (you)"

So is it possible that this aggressiveness will subside once the dominant guinea has established herself?

[tehdoc809]

Originally Posted by Pollyerrington

So is it possible that this aggressiveness will subside once the dominant guinea has established herself?

Completely possible if that's what's going on. However, if they are going through adolescence it could take a lot longer for them to calm down. The biggest thing is to pick out a time when you can sit and watch them for a long period of time to see when it is that they are be aggressive and what the circumstances are.

However, you must also prepare for the off chance that you may have two piggers that just don't get along from time to time and are always a wee bit aggressive.

[Pollyerrington]

I'm just so worried, I want my little piggies to be happy. It's so strange because I've them popcorning!!!

[Pollyerrington]

Originally Posted by tehdoc809

Well First off, 3x2 cage for two pigs is small, they should be in atleast a 2x4.

Just got back from pet sotre and got a cage twice the size! yay, hopefully they might chill now they have more space.

[Paula]

What size is the cage you got them?

[Pollyerrington]

Originally Posted by paula.m.moore

What size is the cage you got them?

2x4 and with 2 levels. So much bigger than their last one. I'm totally poor now as it was the biggest and most expensive one the store had!

[Ly&Pigs]

There is no petstore cage that I am aware of that is the equivalent of a 2x4 C&C. Remember a 2x4 C&C is not 2 ft. by 4 ft., it's larger than that because grids are anywhere from 14"-14 1/2".

Can you give the brand of the cage? I am really curious to know what kind of pet store cage is that large and has two levels.

[Peggysu]

By the way, if you didn't notice this site is called Guinea Pig Cages for a reason. It's a great resource on how to build your own cage with adequate space for a guinea pig at a good price.

I would suggest checking out the photo gallery if you haven't already, there are a lot of photos from members on this site that have built their own cages for their piggies. With cage size bigger is always better.

[Pollyerrington]

Originally Posted by Ly&Pigs

There is no petstore cage that I am aware of that is the equivalent of a 2x4 C&C. Remember a 2x4 C&C is not 2 ft. by 4 ft., it's larger than that because grids are anywhere from 14"-14 1/2".

Can you give the brand of the cage? I am really curious to know what kind of pet store cage is that large and has two levels.

It was a local pet store in the UK. Has a sticker on it saying it's for rabbits and guinea pigs but that's about it.
It really is big, measuring approx 150cm in length. They love it and are having a good sniff around right now.

[Peggysu]

Just because it says it's for rabbits and guinea pigs doesn't mean it's an appropriate size for them. I hope it doesn't have a wire floor as that can injure their little feet. Also with measurements of pet store cages it's measuring the outside and not the inside floor space which is most important.

[Pollyerrington]

Originally Posted by Peggysu

Just because it says it's for rabbits and guinea pigs doesn't mean it's an appropriate size for them. I hope it doesn't have a wire floor as that can injure their little feet. Also with measurements of pet store cages it's measuring the outside and not the inside floor space which is most important.

I feel like people are getting a bit funny with me here... The cage base is plastic, not wire. It's the biggest one they had which is bigger than the largest one that Ferplast had available. The measurements are correct because I measured it myself, and yes I measured floor space not just across the outside.

[Peggysu]

No ones getting funny with you. We are just trying to help and make sure you have plenty of space so that your piggies get along. There aren't many cages that are big enough to house guinea pigs properly and without adequate space they will more likely fight.

[Pollyerrington]

Originally Posted by Peggysu

No ones getting funny with you. We are just trying to help and make sure you have plenty of space so that your piggies get along. There aren't many cages that are big enough to house guinea pigs properly and without adequate space they will more likely fight.

Ok, I understand that and of course it makes sense. I hope this cage will give them enough space especially having 2 levels.

If problems persist I may attempt to make a cage...

[Peggysu]

Originally Posted by Pollyerrington

If problems persist I may attempt to make a cage...

I highly recommend making a cage. They are cheap and easy to put together and most importanly extremely easy to clean and keep clean.

[Milkingit]

I'm gonna do some conversion measurements for the people in the US who aren't used to metric.

You stated in your original post your cage was;
120 cm x 50 cm
47.2 in x 19.7 in
3.3 Grid x 1.4 Grid

Now you stated your new cage was;
150 cm long
59.1 in
4.2 Grids

You never gave the width of the new cage. But if its the same as your current cage. It still is a little on the small side.

Recommended is a 2x4 = 8 grid area
Yours 4.2 x 1.2 = 5.88 grid area

[Pollyerrington]

Originally Posted by Milkingit

I'm gonna do some conversion measurements for the people in the US who aren't used to metric.

You stated in your original post your cage was;
120 cm x 50 cm
47.2 in x 19.7 in
3.3 Grid x 1.4 Grid

Now you stated your new cage was;
150 cm long
59.1 in
4.2 Grids

You never gave the width of the new cage. But if its the same as your current cage. It still is a little on the small side.

Recommended is a 2x4 = 8 grid area
Yours 4.4 x 1.2 = 5.88 grid area

Thanks for that! the new width is about 60cm...

[Milkingit]

Originally Posted by Pollyerrington

Thanks for that! the new width is about 60cm...

60 cm = 23.6 in = 1.7 Grid

4.2 Grid by 1.7 Gris = 7.14 Grid Area.

That is defiantly a great sized pet store cage. What brand/model number is it?

[Pollyerrington]

Originally Posted by Milkingit

60 cm = 23.6 in = 1.7 Grid

4.2 Grid by 1.7 Gris = 7.14 Grid Area.

That is defiantly a great sized pet store cage. What brand/model number is it?

It didn't have a brand sticker on it or anything. The petstore said it was the only one they had. All I know is that is said it was for guinea pigs and rabbits, it has a wide ramp going for top to bottom, 2 hay feeders, 2 bowls, a hidy house, and a really big water bottle. It's also really tall! so the ramp is quite long which means it'll hopefully give them extra space. I may even add another mini level using coroplast...