Fighting: Two males fighting all of the sudden

[TheJiraks]

[FONT=Arial]I know this topic is probably posted on a lot, but I thought I’d give you all my specific situation to get the best possible advice…[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]For Christmas, my son got our first guinea pig, Chuck Norris, from “Santa”. Santa picked up Chuck from PetSmart (I know, I know…) about three weeks before Christmas because there was a possibility that I would be allergic to him. Everything was fine though, so Santa was free to put Chuck under the tree Christmas morning. In those three weeks, I did a lot more research on pigs and learned that they like company. So on January 2nd I went back to PetSmart (I promise no more) and got another male. His name is Shadow. Shadow was a bit smaller than Chuck in the beginning, but in three months has grown close to the same size as Chuck.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]So Shadow joined Chuck in the 2x4 single-level C&C cage that I built. They have two huts and plenty of things to chew on, etc. For the first three months they got along so well. At first there was a lot of Chuck on Shadow mounting action, and there has always been some rumble-strutting by Chuck, but not too much and he’d quickly get over it. They’d go back to racing around the room together during floor time. If I’d put one on my lap without taking the other out of the cage, sometimes they’d even start wheeking and squeaking like they missed the other. So we’ve all been ignorant in our happiness for the last three months. Fast-forward to last week. There was some teeth chattering in the cage, but nothing too serious. Then when it came to floor time, it got even louder and longer, until after a couple days when they started actually going at each other. We tried to do what the website says…let them figure it out unless there is bloodshed. Well this past Saturday morning Shadow finally got bit pretty good on his rump. I cleaned him up and took him to a vet who said he’ll be fine, but needless to say I had to separate the two pigs completely. I put up two more grids in their cage, so now they each have a 2x2 cage for the time being. I’d like to make them each a bigger cage, but I thought I’d get some other opinions first.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]All of this fighting really started when I switched from using Carefresh bedding to fleece, and I added a 2x1 loft as a kitchen area. Chuck ended up taking over the space under the loft and didn’t like Shadow under there. So I took the loft off thinking that might help get them to behave better again, but it still escalated to this point. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]So here are my questions: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Did the changes I made to their cage cause them to go into a dominance match all over again? Is it because Shadow is getting to be bigger now? Is it because it is getting to be springtime and their hormones are in overdrive? What are the odds of actually getting two pigs that like to be around each other? Is there anything else I can do to help them get along better?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Right now, like I said, they have a divider down the middle of their cage. They are perfectly happy laying next to each other (with the divider between them of course), and they don’t make any fuss seeing the other up close. But as soon as they both go to the floor, the teeth chattering begins and you can see it in their eyes that they want at the other. What the heck is going on?!?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Sorry for rambling on about all this, but it just goes to show how inexperienced we are at this. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide![/FONT]

[rabbitsncavyluv]

You likely have two adolescent males together?

Can you expand the cage to a 2 by 5 ? You can leave the loft up but can you add another ramp to it so it is U shaped? Then one can't guard it or trap another one up there. I wouldn't put the food up there either. You want at least 2 or 3 food source areas.

[TheJiraks]

I could probably expand to 2x5, but do you think they feel like they don't have enough room in the 2x4, and that's why they fight? Also, Chuck has been guarding the space under the loft, not allowing Shadow to get under there at all. He hasn't been trapping Shadow up top. They both would go up and down with out problems...it was just the space underneath.

By adding the divider, I went out and bought a second water bottle and food dish. Should I just pull out the divider each night to see how they get along? I want them to be happy together, but I'm so afraid one of them is going to get seriously hurt.

Thanks for your help!!

[gooberific]

Definitely expand if you can. I had a 2x4 for my two boys for a long while, and what really helped was adding on a 2x1 section with two separate litter pans and hay racks, and having two different places for water and pellets. They also had three tunnels and three fleece tents, and the little bit of extra space created by adding that room made all the difference.

Then they had a 3x4 after adding a third boy didn't work out, plus they still had the 2x1 section for hay. Now they are in a 2x4 with a 1x1 cube room for hay, and they're pretty happy with that (and are just over a year old).

They still get veggies in 2-3 different spots, since Sarge likes to bogart all the fresh food, but they are fine to eat out of the same pellet dish now, and water bottle.

[tehdoc809]

[quote=TheJiraks;411742]I could probably expand to 2x5, but do you think they feel like they don't have enough room in the 2x4, and that's why they fight? [quote]

Yes, cavies need lots of room, the more room the better. Because even though they are social and love having friends, they still need some alone time. And if they feel like they don't have the space then they will start fighting over it. You sould try expanding to a 2x5 with no loft. Because believe it or not, the loft overall takes away form space rather than adding too it. Becuase the 2x1 loft isn't enough room for them to do much in and the ramp leading up to it is taking up ground space they could be using to run around.

Also, if both cavies are roughly the same age and going through adolescense then you can going to have some fighting on your hands. But once they are out of that stage and figure out whos the top cavy things will calm down.

[TheJiraks]

Thanks everyone for your help! This has been really frustrating for us, so I'm glad to hear there's still hope. I will try the 2x5 for now to see how they like that. Once expanded to 2x5, should I put the divider back in while we're not at home? A fight while I'm sitting right there is bad enough, but if no one is there to put an end to it...yikes! Thanks again for all your input and advice!

P.S. It seems like a lot of you have pictures up of your pigs...I will try to get some of ours to show off too!

[TheJiraks]

Ok I have some free time this afternoon so I'm going to expand their cage to the 2x5 layout. However, Saturday and Sunday we won't be home much during the day, so I'm wondering if I should leave a divider in there until Monday? I read another post where it was mentioned that the pigs should not be put together and then split up again over and over, because it just confuses them. But I also don't want to assume they will be fine and then have something happen while we are out of the house.

Another note, we tried the a buddy bath for the first time Wednesday night. They really didn't enjoy it much, but they sat in the sink together without a fight. As soon as they were dried off and put back on the floor together though, the teeth chattering and fighting began again. Am I doing something wrong here, or should I just wait to see how an expanded cage works?

Thanks everyone!

[TheJiraks]

Ok never mind. Last night was a nightmare. I built the 2x5, and had the pigs out on the floor the whole time building it. They just would not leave each other alone! Teeth chattering and lots of tense moments. Took forever to build the dang cage AND keep an eye on the pigs. Finally they settled down and I got it built. We cleaned all their dishes and bottles, put in new fleece, basically tried to avoid any smells from the old cage. Put the pigs in and watched them explore without incident...for 15 minutes until they were at it again. No blood was drawn though so, hesitant as I was, I just let them try to work through it without interfering. That is until Shadow took a lunge at Chuck and ended up taking a piece of Chuck's ear. Aghhh! I'm so frustrated! Why don't they get along? Why didn't I just keep them separate? Well needless to say they are separate now. Is this it? Are they just never going to get along again? I just don't understand....

We're off to the vet this morning to get checked out. I think he'll be fine, but better safe than sorry.

[BabyBellie]

I wouldn't worry too much and I would leave them seperated until they calm down a little. When I first got my second pig, alice, she was pregnant, so my first girl was pretty mean to her and I didn't want to stress alice. I left them in a seperated cage and it seemed to work well. They were able to get used to each other and still have their own space. Even though your boys are seperate they can still see eachother and lay beside eachother so they shouldn't be lonely for now. I know it sucks having to keep them seperate but this way no one gets hurt. I would try again once their out of puberty. Hope this helped.

[TheJiraks]

I think that's what we're just going to plan on doing. Thanks for your response!