Um...help the noob?

[Ziggy&Herald]

OK, I know you can't mist any pig and put them back. You must dry them completely. I was just putting a point out about what I have heard about how to care for the hair. It could be completely wrong, however brushing mine does tend to make him lose his curl, but only till his next grooming. If I want him curly, I give him a bath and scrunch his hair kind of while drying it. If not, I bathe him, dry him and brush him out. And I guess she is not a Texel anyway by looking at her other pics. I just got excited

[Ghostwheel]

Originally Posted by CavySpirit

Ghostwheel, for example:
From YOUR perspective, you can call it absolutely anything you want. You just purpled a guinea pig. What goes on in your own head is your own business. I could really care less. From the STORE's perspective, you just BOUGHT a guinea pig--for $0 or for $20. You are absolutely no different from the next 11-year-old that comes in with Mommy in tow and plunks down $20 for another fur ball.

Sorry, no purpled guinea pig here. Nice of you to say so, though.

OK. I'm confused. Why on Earth is it wrong to rescue an animal from a pet store if you are not buying it, just taking a sick animal off their hands? How, exactly, did I BUY that guinea pig, when I got it from the Rescue? The Rescue took the animal to save it. Sure, from the store's perspective, they just threw away a guinea pig, which they would have done after it died anyway, but they sure didn't sell it or profit from it. Do you consider it better to let the animal die, just to teach the store a lesson? Or is there some way to save it without getting it from the store? (cause I'll take that route, if there is one) Letting an animal die is not within me, so if that makes me uneducated, I'll take it. I get the feeling we're not talking the same thing here, but if you've got a way I can save a neurologically challenged, blind guinea pig without having someone taking it from the store, where I do not buy any animals or supplies, mind you, never have and never will, please tell me what it is. I'm there!

I get that you don't like pet stores, neither do I. But to say that an animal, that would just be thrown away when it died, is being "bought" because you took it before it hit the trash can is inaccurate.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Originally Posted by Ghostwheel

No, I don't breed. I only get rescue piggies.

No, you buy pigs from pet stores.

You are a customer when you plunk down money for a pet at a pet store. You are just enabling them to continue the cycle of abuse, neglect and abandonment. They then order more pigs to replace that one from their pet mill/ breeder. You are enabling them to fill their tanks with more animals by taking the sick ones off their hands and relieving them of their responsibility.

[babybunny]

If you gave them money or not, you still freed up a spot for another guinea pig (or more) to fill. If the animal is in need of medical attention, then you should get a manager to get it the proper medical care it needs. If they refuse then you can report them.

[CavySpirit]

Originally Posted by Ghostwheel

... Why on Earth is it wrong to rescue an animal from a pet store if you are not buying it, just taking a sick animal off their hands? ... but they sure didn't sell it or profit from it. Do you consider it better to let the animal die, just to teach the store a lesson? Or is there some way to save it without getting it from the store? (cause I'll take that route, if there is one) Letting an animal die is not within me, so if that makes me uneducated, I'll take it. I get the feeling we're not talking the same thing here, ...

You don't think they PROFIT by you taking that sick animal off of their hands? Just think it through some more.

Let the animal die? No. IF an animal is going to DIE at a pet store, then there ARE a whole variety of things you CAN and should do. The EASY thing for you to do to feel good about yourself is buy or negotiate the taking of the animal. Great. You feel better about yourself right here right now and you SAVED that one animal. Congrats and whoopdy do. Exactly how much money do you have? How much time do you have? How big is your check book? Because you most definitely just accelerated the same fate for more pigs by taking the emotionally easy way out. All of the things to do to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem take thinking, take commitment, take energy, take time, probably take some frustration and maybe some tears. There are mountains of posts on this forum about how and what to do and they are all well worth doing.

And Yes, we ARE talking about the same thing here.

I'm very glad to hear that not letting an animal die is not within you. Very glad. Can I assume that you are also a vegetarian? It's a strong statement to make. One that should make someone a strong AR activist. So hopefully, as you learn more about what goes on behind the scenes of the pet trade business, you'll come to realize there are tactics other than obvious one which will yield far greater results and truly save lives.

================================

If you actually adopt an animal from a RESCUE that is doing adoption days at a pet store THAT DOESN'T sell animals, then that is fine.

I have a major problem with a few of the rescues that do adoption days at Petco/Petsmart with the pigs in the tanks for sale right behind them. But, still if you adopted a pig from a true rescue (ie, application, contract, no same day adoption, etc.) then fine.

BUT, if you think you are adopting an animal from the pet store itself in any way, shape or form--without a legitimate rescue involved--it's not an adoption, it's a sale.

[Almi_]

I went out and got a few things today.

I got some cubes, and I looked all over the place at Fleet Farm for some alternative to cloroplast, and though I found some things that would work, they just weren't a big enough piece. So I'm back to square one with that. I'm going to have to see if my girlfriend will help me navigate and find the places that do carry cloroplast.

I got some little kitchen basket thingy (I'm not really sure exactly what it's for) at Fleet Farm that I think will work perfectly for a hay basket.

I also picked up a small kitchen scale and weighed Ginger. Turns out that she only weighs about 8.4 ounces (235-240 grams), so she's too small to treat with Ivermectin. What else is safe to use? What if she never gets big enough? She doesn't seem to be growing at all, even from the time I saw her several weeks ago at the pet store.

I also went to a pet store today. It's called K-9 Country Club, and they have the same owners as Great Pets, the place I got Ginger from.

I was appalled. I've never been too impressed with them, but this was just the last straw, and I never want to go there anymore. For one, their rats were wayy overcrowded, and in tanks. Two, most of their reptiles looked dehydrated and unhealthy. What appalled me the most was their rabbit/cavy habitat. Okay, so it's bad enough that they put them all together. But what's worse, there were at least 25 animals in this habitat! They were about 2/3 rabbits and 1/3 cavies.

It gets worse. They had only one water bottle, and there were at least 7 animals fighting over it the entire time we were there. The pigs were trying to climb over the pile of rabbits to get some, but they didn't even have a chance. The amount of water in that one water bottle was barely enough to last that amount of animals an hour or two - how are they supposed to keep from getting dehydrated overnight?

Oh, not to mention they mix the sexes. They pretty much just throw in animals of all ages, sizes, and genders. The rabbits were mounting each other, and there was a largely pregnant cavy. She was so far along you could see a baby squirming in her belly.

I had an employee come up to me when I was looking sadly down at the mass of pigs and rabbits. She asked me if I had any questions. I said, "Yes, actually I do - why do you guys think it's okay to overcrowd all of your animals?" Her: "Overcrowd...? Well, they sell pretty quickly...so..." Me: "And mix the sexes? Did you know this one is pregnant?! *points at pregnant cavy*" Her: "Yeah..." Me: "*shakes head* I hope she doesn't die giving birth." Her: "Oh, I don't think she will. She's had babies before. Me: O_o

Then they had a bunch of birds in tiny cages...they had seven cockatiels in a cage that was barely big enough for one. And there was a dove that was clearly very ill - I said to Heather, "I can't believe they even have that on display!"

Yeah, and the dogs were kept in filthy conditions.

Okay, so I work in a pet store where we sell dogs, sometimes cats, hamsters, rats, cavies, and rabbits. But our puppies receive the best of care. They are cleaned twice every day and all of their stuff is bleach, bleach, bleached. They also receive any medication and veterinary care they may need.

Same goes for the other animals. All of the small animals are separated by gender, and once the Syrians are too old to be together, they're separated. We also use Carefresh for all of them, not pine. Sure, they are all kept in habitats that are too small for the number of animals, but they're all baby animals, and they sell quickly.

The pet store I work for is a small, family owned pet store, and I have no objections to how they care for their live animals. My boss is compassionate towards these creatures; she does not see them as "stock," and she makes sure they go to the right home. More than once has she refused the sale of a rabbit for Easter.

I will agree with you all that it was selfish and hypocritical of me to buy Ginger from Great Pets. I just wanted a nice pig that I really liked to start off with [insert selfishness]. I think I did make a good choice of pig, because Ginger is totally sweet and I already have gone from disliking to loving guineas. Though Great Pets isn't hardly as bad as K-9, it's basically the same store, and I do not want to support them, especially after going to K-9 today. It was really a rude awakening for me.

I also agree there are flaws with chain pet stores. PetSmart would be a very good pet store if it got its animals from reputable breeders instead of chain breeders. That, IMO, is really its only downfall. I will continue to buy items from them, but I will not support the fact that they get their animals from horrible places.

I am trying to find other options, such as buying pet supplies from Fleet Farm, Wal-Mart, Target, or online, but so far there are still things that are best and cheapest to get at PetSmart.

I truly do run a rescue; I have always wanted to have one since I was 14. So it's not just that I "saved" too many animals and don't have space for them. I do, in fact, have space for many more if need be, and am prepared to care for the animals that I currently house for the rest of their lives. I just decided it would be better to start rescuing the real way and finding them homes, or we will eventually not have space anymore and therefore won't be able to take in any rescues. I'm still getting out of taking free animals from pet stores and wanting them as pets. Forgive me, for it has been one of my downfalls.

I can say that I haven't bought an animal from a pet store in quite a while (before Ginger), though, and I don't think I've gotten any since I started the rescue. A lot of our adoptions are nearing 6 months to a year now (or are over a year), so it was quite a while ago that we began taking in pet store "defects."

I do think there has been some good that has come out of some of our PetSmart adoptions. Clearly the chain breeders they've been getting their animals from have been inbreeding, because they kept sending PetSmart hamsters that had malocclusions. I took in all four, because these little guys needed a special diet and regular tooth trimming. Not only that, but I love their faces. I've kept them all as pets; that's why you won't see any on the hamster adoption page on the site. In fact, one of them is the inspiration to start the rescue I now run, called Ricci's Rainbow. Ricardo is the name of the hamster; his story is on my site, and there should be pictures of him also.

Anyway, by taking them in, the pet care manager had no choice but to send their supplier a letter stating that they were sending them hamsters with malocclusions. So at least now I don't have to worry about them creating more. At least I hope so, I haven't seen any "hamtards" for a while now.

Oh well, hate me if you want. I do love animals and I want to do good for them, whether I buy pet supplies from pet stores or buy a pet once in a while...

Cross your fingers this person on CL emails me back. =P

[Almi_]

Um, okay, I just took the cubes out and I'm noticing that she might be able to squeeze through?!

[PiggieMamaKelly]

You can overlap the grids and use zip ties to keep them. That would make the squares much smaller. You are quite right to be concerned because babies can and do get their heads stuck in the grids.


"I will continue to buy items from them, but I will not support the fact that they get their animals from horrible places."

The way you support or not support Petsmart is with money. So handing over the cash but "believing in your heart" that they are wrong is somewhat futile (and hypocritical).

[Almi_]

By buying their products, you support the sale of their products. By buying their animals, you support the sale of their animals. If everyone stopped buying their animals and only bought their products, they'd still be in business but would stop selling animals. It's like a product that doesn't sell. If no one buys it, it becomes discontinued. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with buying pet supplies from a store.

I thought about doubling up the grids, but I think it would just be easier to put the grids around the pet playpens I have. Thanks for confirming that she may squeeze out (or get stuck).

[Biscuit]

The "hate me if you want" thing is emotional manipulation. We aren't that dumb. =)

[Almi_]

Wow, sorry. All I'm saying is that I give up, and that I don't really care if I am the target of scorn and hate. I came on here for advice on my new pig and nothing else. If you want to take it as manipulation (or be manipulated by it), that's your problem.

I also like how that is the only thing you reply to out of my entire post. Thanks for your time.

[PiggieMamaKelly]

Originally Posted by Almi_

I thought about doubling up the grids, but I think it would just be easier to put the grids around the pet playpens I have. Thanks for confirming that she may squeeze out (or get stuck).

Yes, take it from someone who has needed bolt-cutters to free a stuck baby!

Another way people baby-proof is by sticking cardboard around the bottom 6 inches or so. That way the baby is not able to reach any squares to get stuck in.

[Almi_]

Okay, thanks.

[PigWooBus]

Why you should adopt from us:
~Though an animal you adopt from us may not be a baby, it will already be tame and used to people. We treat our rescues just like our own family, and they are all loved and handled. Ones that don't like to be handled are respected as such.

~You will be saving a life rather than promoting the bad conditions animals in pet stores are subjected to.

~Although our goal is to find "forever homes", we will always take back an animal you adopted from us if for some reason the placement did not work out.

~We will provide you with expert care advice for these animals before and/or after you adopt them. We are not ignorant pet store employees trying to sell you things; you can rest easy knowing that what we are telling you is the best and cheapest way to care for your pet.

~The biggest advantage of adopting from us is, much unlike a lot of pet store animals, our animals receive immediate vet care as needed. We do not let them suffer or try to treat things that clearly need expert care. We also refuse to adopt out an animal that is obviously ill, to prevent current pets from becoming ill and to reduce cost to you, the adopter.

I find a lot of what you say on your website to be contradictory to what you told us. Like, this first point I copied from your website, isn't this exactly why you said you bought yours from a pet store? You were afraid a rescue would be skittish, but here you tell potential adopters that they are already tame.

And I thought you just tried to say that Petsmart takes their animals to the vet? Do you mean Banfield? Once, I tried to take an animal I had got from them to Banfield, and they told me they don't even see small animals. To put it bluntly, I thought it was really stupid to put a vet in their store who doesn't even treat the animals they sell.

I also think it is odd that you have some of your own pets up for adoption alongside your rescues, yet you are buying more pets. This does not make any sense to me.

A key idea behind rescuing is that the pet will find a good "forever" home (and you say so yourself). I'm worried your guinea pig will not be "forever" if your other pets haven't been.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Your pet store sells puppies and kittens? That's really much worse than Petsmart or Petco. You don't think they get them from pet mills too? Do you know about puppy mills? Those conditions are in par to what you say in that pet store if not worse.

Even if the store is "clean" , it's what you don't see that's the problem.

And baby animals sell faster? That really helps when they are dumped a few months later, if they live that long.