Leave them together, separate them, or buddy bath?

[wiggley_narco]

As some of you know, I introduced York to Wiggley and Narco yesterday. It was pretty brutal for a while, with Wiggley and York flying at each other. I almost separated them, but there was no blood so I let in continue. It finally calmed down a little when York gave up and Wiggley won dominance. From that point on, Wiggley repeatedly mounted York and ran him around the cage for hours on end. Now that too seems to have gotten better... but I'm still worried.

York has holed himself up in a hidey house and hasn't came out all day. Every time he attempts to, Wiggley runs him around the cage and right back into the hidey house. Wiggley won't let him eat, drink, or just wander around the cage. Every once in awhile (4 times today), I hear York let out a loud shriek and lots of running commotion ensues. The thing is, there are no wounds or blood on him (you would think there would be the way he shrieks).

So what should I do? Will it get better? I just feel so bad for York being unable to come out of his hidey house. It makes me want to just call it quits and separate them. Should I just let it be? Or should I try a buddy bath? How long should I let this go on before I intervene? I don't want to make York miserable for an extended period of time if it just isn't going to work out.

I've been hand feeding York some veggies (much to Wiggley's extreme protesting). Should I keep doing this, or should I stop so he has to fend for himself? I just don't know what to do. This is so stressful.

I'm rambling now, so I'll just end it here. Any suggestions regarding letting them get over it, separating them, a buddy bath, and hand feeding York are greatly appreciated. Heck, advice on ANYTHING would be great right now. I'm so stressed out.

[pigsforlife]

York needs to eat and drink. Perhaps put some wet veggies in his pigloo. At this case I would be considering separating them and trying a buddy bath.

Actually a buddy bath would be the way to go I think. Give them a good wash and introduce them in a large nuetral area. Then before putting them back in their cage clean it out from top to bottom. This includes scrubbing houses, corflute etc etc.

How big is your cage? Boys tend to be territorial so it may help if you can increase the size of their cage.

Yorks shrieking probably isnt from being in pain but from protesting.

[wiggley_narco]

Their cage is a 2x6 L-shaped with a 1x2 hayloft... I can't make it any bigger. I live in a one-bedroom apartment and it already takes up half of my bedroom!

I might try the buddy bath tomorrow.... but I don't know how in the world I'm going to give THREE upset guinea pigs a bath at the same time by myself! *sigh*

Thanks for the advice though.

[socal805]

In my experience it takes about 3 weeks for things to really settle down after introductions, if you seperate them now you will have to go through the whole intro process again. I really don't know if the bussy bath is neccessary unless there is serious fighting. Mounting and general chasing around is normal. Do you have 3 bowls, water bottles and things like that? If you are worried about York not eating you may want to re-position food and water to different areas in the cage, that way when one is eating in one area another pig can eat in a different area. Also try putting a bit of hay and veggies for them near the pigloos. Not just Yorks pigloo though because the other 2 will try to take his food.
Good luck, it sounds like you are doing good, it is stressful I know but to me it sounds like it will be ok!

[TX_2_Pigs]

I seriously wouldn't separate them but do make sure the York is getting some veggies. And make sure they are a little extra wet. Maybe place one of the water bottles near his pigloo. Let him hide. Give him his veggies near his pigloo and maybe a small amount of pellets so he doesn't have to venture too far until he is ready. After a bit, Wiggly will understand that York isn't going to challenge him.

I agree with Socal. Have at least one dish per pig at least for now. That way when Wiggly chases Narco or York away they can run over to another dish and grab some food before Wiggly runs them off of that one.

[steve_and_pigs]

I has a similar problem, but it was with girls. It is so hard to watch one piggie get hazed, and do nothing but hide and cower Those shrieks sound awful! Many folks say they sound worse then they really are. I agree with that.

Since the dominance decision has been made, I would stick out with keeping them together. My experience was that those "chases around the cage" get shorter and shorter over time. At first, it is around the cage multiple times. Then around just one time. Then halfway around, etc. Watch for "improvements" to help yourself with the stress because it is not going to end in a day. It feels terrible!

[wiggley_narco]

Thanks so much you guys...!

They do have 3 separate locations for food, 3 separate locations for pellets, and 2 separate locations for water. There are also 3 hidey houses and 2 tubes.

This morning, York ventured out and ate some veggies with the other 2 boys for a while... before being chased back into his hidey house by Wiggley. But that at least gives me hope that things may get better. I sure hope so.

Thanks for the support, ya'll!

[PhoenixFeather]

I agree with the others who have told you to stick it out as long as blood is not being shed.

When I introduced my 2 boys, and was wondering how long the dominance stuff goes on, clotho posted something that TX_2_Pigs had re-posted that was originally posted by CavySpirit about the 3-3-3 guideline:

Originally Posted by CavySpirit
The first 3 hours are usually the worst. Then it settles down a bit, but it still pretty bad for the first 3 days, it settles down some more but still with issues during the first 3 weeks, then they start to settle into their social structure. It can take another 3 months for them to totally work it out. It's a very gradual tapering process.

This has definitely been our experience. It's been about 2-3 weeks now, and we honestly rarely have issues with the boys anymore, but occasionally they'll start back up with the rumbling and chasing stuff. They were never as bad as yours (no shrieking, and not as much bullying) but it was helpful to know that (a) it is normal for some "flare ups" to keep occurring, and (b) that it will get better as the weeks and months go by.

Good luck to you and your boys!

I'd be tempted to hand-feed York some veggies and maybe offer a water bottle during "private" lap time in a separate room for at least the next few days, though it is encouraging that he is getting out with the other boys to eat. We did hand-feed Parcheesi (the new and less dominant pig) veggies for their first few days together, because Frisky seemed to be hogging them all. But 'Cheesi holds his own these days!

[wiggley_narco]

Thanks Phoenix! Despite the attacks that were going on, there's not been any blood... but they were definitely attacking full-on, teeth bared and everything. They flew through the air at each other! But that's stopped now, and they're down to teeth chattering, chasing, and mounting. I still worry about the teeth chattering, though, because it's pretty intense sometimes. But they've made definite improvements.

When I intro'd Wiggley and Narco a few months ago, it wasn't anywhere near this bad. Wiggley mounted him A LOT, even for weeks afterwards, but there was never teeth chattering/baring, raised hackles, attacks, etc. And Narco always followed Wiggley around; Wiggley didn't keep him cornered in a hidey house 24/7.

I wish I had videoed it for you guys to see, but it was too bad for me to think about that. I had to throw a towel on them twice because it got to the point they were inevitable going to seriously injure one another.

I'll keep ya'll updated. Thanks again.

[Newpiggiemom]

I've shared my intro story on here several times so I'll keep it short. I tried to introduce a third to my two boys and it wound up a disaster. My three sounded like yours and I tried to stick it out. After three weeks there was serious blood drawn from 2 of my pigs. My Jack wound up with an abscess from the bite wound. Chester's face healed up well, though.

I now have two in one cage, and Spike is in his own divided section. They can see each other but not fight.

If you can keep them together I think it would be great. If not, a divided cage really isn't the end of the world. It was not what I had planned but it's working.

[Feylin]

It took mine at least 3 weeks to settle down- and there's still chasing and mounting. I would just keep an eye on them for serious bites but I think they'll sort it out.