How do I know if it's ok to leave them alone together?

[PhoenixFeather]

We got Frisky a friend, and today we did intros. Both pigs are 6-month-old boars. They were great together on neutral territory, a little rumbling and butt-sniffing, but mainly they cuddled together and seemed very happy. (Frisky has never been with another pig since leaving his mother at 6 weeks; Parcheesi, the new guy, was living with another male his age at the shelter -- in a pet store cage even!)

We separated them while we ate dinner, and put Parcheesi into the main cage to check it out, and left Frisky in the playpen where we had done intros.

When we put Frisky into the cage after dinner, they did both seem more aggressive toward one another, but mostly still just rumbling. There was a little teeth chattering, and a few times where they seemed to be trying to bite one another's backs, kind of moving in a circle, but neither really did any damage. I'd step toward them and they were more scared of me so they'd separate.

They seemed to be fighting over the cardboard box hidey, so I made a second one. For now they are hanging out in their own separate hideys, but I don't know if it's ok to trust them alone yet or not. How would I know? Should I separate them overnight?

Thanks!

[clotho]

Every time you separate them and put them back together again, they have to start ALL over sorting out dominance. If they are not drawing blood, then leave them together.

This is why I always start intros in the morning - that way you have all day to watch them and make sure they are going to be ok together.

If they are not fighting and have been together for some time, I think you're probably ok. I'd watch them as late as you can before going to bed though - just in case.

Having two or more of everything - hideys, food dishes, water bottles - makes it much less likely that they will fight.

Also, did you clean your main cage out completely - water bottles, food dishes - everything - so there are no scents in the cage? If one piggie's scent is in the cage, he will be territorial.

Good luck!

[PhoenixFeather]

Thanks for your quick reply!

They've been together for about 6 hours now, except for about 1/2 hour break because I was afraid to leave them alone together while we ate dinner.

They seem pretty mellow right now. The cage is in my 11yo son's room, so if they really get into it, he will wake up and call for help. But I'm thinking they're fine. We did clean everything in the cage, except I forgot about the food bowls. Ironically, they've been very nice about sharing food (since of course we are making sure there is plenty). The hideys are cardboard, and one of them is Frisky's old one, so it has his scent on it. At first he was in that one and Parcheesi was in the new one, then they swapped, they do tend to go into the houses and "tumble" a bit (climb over one another etc) but then one just leaves and takes the "leftover" house (which changes). I could try to find another box and make a fresh hidey to replace the scented one, but honestly they seem to be "fighting over" the fresh one at least as much.

We'll keep an eye on it. Thanks again for your encouragement.

[clotho]

So?!! How did your boys do last night?

[PhoenixFeather]

They did fine. (phew!) A little more "scuffling" but nothing serious. They seem happier this morning. They shared veggies nicely this morning.

Will they continue to work out dominance over the course of days/weeks, or is it usually pretty much settled the first day?

Thanks.

[clotho]

You may always see nose offs, rumbling, and some chasing, etc. But the frequency and severity will get better over time.

I hope TX_2_Pigs won't mind but I"m copying this quote from an old thread - a quote from CavySpirit that I was trying to find. It talks about a 3-3-3 guideline for cavies when you introduce them:

Originally Posted by CavySpirit
The first 3 hours are usually the worst. Then it settles down a bit, but it still pretty bad for the first 3 days, it settles down some more but still with issues during the first 3 weeks, then they start to settle into their social structure. It can take another 3 months for them to totally work it out. It's a very gradual tapering process.

[TX_2_Pigs]

Originally Posted by clotho

I hope TX_2_Pigs won't mind

Don't mind at all, especially since it isn't my quote you are quoting. HaHa. Glad I could help make the information more accessible to someone else.

Keep an eye out next week for my videos of the intros of my 4 boys. Hopefully it will be an example of what happens that makes most people feel they have to separate but they really shouldn't and not flying balls of fury. I guess either way though it should be very educational.

[chexxy]

Good to hear they are doing nicely. My 2 male pigs sniffed, then became Best friends. Never anybiting, tiny bit of rumbling.

[PhoenixFeather]

They are "tolerating" one another today. By which I mean staying in separate hidey houses ignoring one another. Frisky (our original pig) will sometimes venture out, then get startled and run for the nearest hidey, which may contain Parcheesi. But they don't fight when this happens. They seem to be swapping houses regularly as well. I think Frisky may be hogging all the veggies, as Parcheesi is more nervous about coming out of his hidey when we bring them. So he will get some during lap time today! I've also been putting some of the at the entrance of the hidey he is in, but Frisky will go right in there and swipe them! (I haven't found anything Parcheesi likes that Frisky doesn't, or I'd be sure to give plenty of that too!)

[PhoenixFeather]

How old are your males, Chexxy?

Ours are both 6 months, which we knew could be a challenging age for intros. But for a number of reasons, we decided to go for it. It seems to be working, so I'm relieved!

[clotho]

PhoenixFeather I"m so glad things seem to be working out well for you so far!!!

TX_2_Pigs what a great idea videotaping an introduction!!! It would really help others to be able to see normal interactions and not get so freaked out over them that they separate prematurely. Good luck with it!!! And I'm glad you didn't mind me swiping the quote (even if it wasn't yours) from your post LOL!!!

[PhoenixFeather]

Originally Posted by clotho

TX_2_Pigs what a great idea videotaping an introduction!!! It would really help others to be able to see normal interactions and not get so freaked out over them that they separate prematurely.

I meant to comment on this too -- I agree that this is a wonderful idea. It would have been so reassuring for me to have seen a video of normal boar introductions before trying it myself!

Clotho, thanks for the 3-3-3 quote. and TX, thanks for putting it where Clotho could find it

[TX_2_Pigs]

Well it is either going to be a video of normal boar behavior or an example of when to separate. I sure hope it is the first one and I don't have flying balls of furry!

That is the whole reason I post what I do. To help others. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside when I know it has.

[PhoenixFeather]

For anyone who's still following along, the boys seem to be doing great together now. Frisky will even willingly share food if Parcheesi is bold enough to go after it, which he is doing more and more.

They have been sharing hideys, and hanging out together under the hammock a fair bit. I ordered them a cuddle cup to put under there to make it cozier.

I'm so relieved by how well this seems to be working out. I had been really worried about getting Frisky a friend and doing intros, especially after we learned that he was a boar (originally sexed as a female shortly after birth).

TX, when are you doing your intros? Good luck with them!!

[clotho]

That's great PhoenixFeather! I'm so happy for you that things are settling down and they seem to be enjoying each other's company.

I also wish you good luck with the intros TX_2_Pigs!!!! I look forward to the video.

[TX_2_Pigs]

Intros are scheduled for Saturday. I am starting to get nervous about it. I just hope it goes well.

Glad to hear things are settling down.