Forced to move because of our boys.

[tattooyu]

We are being forced to move after four years (two with our boys) because of a no pets policy in our apartment building. We didn't think that included small animals, just dogs and cats, and our landlord didn't think it would be a problem either. She had two birds. Apparently, she had them before the policy went into effect.

Anyway, all that aside, we have to move. I believe we have 30 days to do so...but NO STRESS! HA!



Is there a thread or sticky post somewhere with moving tips when you have cavies? My wife and I have moved twice but never with pets. To make matters worse, our two boys cannot be together, because of fighting.

Questions:

• Would you move them first or last?
• Is it safe to use a two 1x2's (with top grids) for transport? [We have two small soft carriers, but I wouldn't keep them in there very long. Not sure if we can afford hard carriers right now.]

I'm so frazzled right now I can't even think straight. I'm a grown man sitting here in practically in tears. I just couldn't imagine having to give them away...no way.

Any help would be appreciated.

[i-love-nev]

Yes, a 1x2 if fine to transport them in, and I would move them in the middle, so when all the BIG furniture (sofa, table, apliances etc) have moved in, and put them in the room they will stay in and then I would just put all the odds around the house (smaller furniture).

Hope the move goes well!

[Guinea_Piggin]

We didn't think that included small animals, just dogs and cats, and our landlord didn't think it would be a problem either.

I'm a bit confused. If your landlord was okay with the pigs, then who is making you move out? The building owner/manager?

[tattooyu]

It is the property manager. It's kind of a complicated issue. The landlord thought it would be okay, but also didn't want to be involved; then again she said she'd take the heat for any problems. Now she's changing her tune saying and giving conflicting stories to cover her own butt.

I won't bore you with all those details. Everything is being handled amicably and reasonably, but it is a big pain in the perineal sac.

We're also not looking forward to the increase in rent, since we've lived here for four years and we are in L.A., you can imagine how that goes...

[clotho]

Wow I am so sorry that is happening to you!!! I am SO proud of you for not giving up your boys and being willing to move to keep them!!!

I am not sure what the rules are where you live, but I would be talking to a lawyer or finding out about a landlord and tenant's act or something similar to find out your rights as a renter. I know here in Canada, you would probably be able to fight that and stay where you are WITH your animals, regardless of the no pets policy. I would be looking into that option before moving - especially with only 30 days notice - that's crazy!!!

If you do end up moving, a hard carrier would be easier - do you know anyone you could borrow from just for the move? Otherwise a 1x2 would be fine for transport so long as you make sure it is very sturdy and can't collapse or come apart during the trip. Maybe someone has old pet store cages you could borrow for the trip? They would be fine in pet store cages even for a couple days if necessary until you could set up their cage(s) in the new place.

If it was me, I would keep the piggies where you are sleeping. So if you are sleeping in the old place, I'd keep the piggies with you. When you are ready to sleep in the new place, I'd bring the piggies to your new place in small cages/carriers. Then set up the cage(s) in the new place, put your piggies in, and they will be with you that night when you sleep in the new place.

Good luck with everything. Please let us know how it goes. I wouldn't give in without a fight!!!

[tattooyu]

Thanks, clotho. There's just no way we could give them up. Just because they are small, doesn't mean they are any less a part of the family than a cat or a dog. It's hard making people realize that. I guess most people don't see guinea pigs as having a "personality" like cats or dogs.

I'm pretty sure our signed lease has a clause about pets. I suppose we could try and fight it, but at that point the mgmt. company has the right to give us a 3-day notice...you read that correctly, THREE days...to throw us out.

With me being sick (bronchitis), my wife just starting a new job, me looking for a new job to replace the one I have, the holidays coming up, etc., honestly, I just don't think we have the energy to fight it.

If I can find someone that has a pet store cage, I think I'll go with that idea. Otherwise, I'll build them each a 1x2 and reinforce it with extra cable ties.

I also love your idea about keeping them where we sleep. I think that's important for them -- and US! It'll help keep us sane to see their faces and we can keep an eye on them as well.

If need be, my sister-in-law has agreed to take them in, but she has a dog. I'd rather not let it come to that.

Thanks again.

[ctinaw]

Legally, even if it was only verbal - and your landlord told you that it would be ok to have your guinea pigs- this is an oral contract - and yes this is legally binding!!

You should not have to be moving because of her changing her tune (to cover her own behind) - I could see her losing her job over it - but that's not really your problem - and may not happen either.

From Legal Help, Directories, Articles, and Forums From ExpertLaw:

There is an old joke that "an oral contract isn't worth the paper it's written on". That's a reference to the fact that it can be very difficult to prove that an oral contract exists. Absent proof of the terms of the contract, a party may be unable to enforce the contract or may be forced to settle for less than the original bargain. Thus, even when there is not an opportunity to draft up a formal contract, it is good practice to always make some sort of writing, signed by both parties, to memorialize the key terms of an agreement.

At the same time, under most circumstances, if the terms of an oral contract can be proved or are admitted by the other party, an oral contract is every bit as enforceable as one that is in writing. There are, however, "statute of fraud" laws which hold that some contracts cannot be enforced unless reduced to writing and signed by both parties. For more information on the Statute of Frauds, please see this associated article.

Please note that, although sometimes an oral contract is referred to as a "verbal contract", the term "oral" means "spoken" while the term "verbal" can also mean" in words". Under that definition, all contracts are technically "verbal". If you mean to refer to a contract that is not written, although most people will recognize what you mean by "verbal contract", for maximum clarity it is helpful to refer to it as an "oral contract".

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Also see this: http://www.animallaw.info/journals/jo_pdf/vol11_p69.pdf

Page 98(32):

"One legal defense to a no-pets clause is that a landlord has "waived" the no-pets policy by allowing the open and notorious housing of animals in the property over a period of time. Some jurisdictions have codified this equitable waiver argument.(249) New York City's (NYC) "pet law" is a well-known example of the statutory protections available to renters in some municipalities.(250)

-----------------------------------------------

(Three months or more being considered "openly and notoriously allowing") Now... considering your LANDLORD of all people was keeping birds in her own dwelling - this is a huge argument to be had.

If I were you - I would fight this.

[tattooyu]

Thank you for that document. I really appreciate that. Looks like our landlord may have unknowingly waived that clause of our lease.

I will consider what you have said, but it just might not be feasible for us to do that. Moving might actually turn out to be easier. Plus, there are places around here that do accept pets willingly.

[Alusdra]

Whatever you end up doing- I must say it really warms my heart how much you're going through to keep your piggies. It seems like so many people seem to use 'moving' as a euphamism for 'dumping their pets' because they can't be bothered. (In fact, when I was moving, I got surprised looks so often when I said 'of course I'm keeping my pets!' I was ready to throw something at someone...)

Thank you for being so responsible! And good luck on finding a better place with cheaper rent and an in-writing allowance for pets and/or winning your right to stay by legalese-smashing them into submission!

[clotho]

Whatever your decision, we support you!!! I just don't like to see people pushed around - especially over their pets!!! You are probably right that it would be easier to just move - the landlord is betting on that!!! - but that doesn't make it fair or right!!! If you can, at least look into your rights and what it would entail to fight it.

If you do move, I would definitely keep your piggies with you if at all possible. You only have 2 - if I was to move - at the moment I have 14 I'd have to move LOL!!!

Would I be correct in assuming that you would be moving pretty much all in one day? If so you can even put your piggies into their smaller "holding" pens a day or two ahead of the move and have their big cage(s) already broken down and ready to move. Then you could move them over to the new place where they could even stay in those smaller cages another night until you have a chance to set up cages.

I am thinking about what a nightmare it would be for me to ever move!! We have two huge cages that would have to be broken down and rebuilt. We have males and females that we couldn't mix together. We would need some major planning to try to move our herd!!! I would probably end up making temporary smaller cages in the new place and then moving them over one herd at a time in my cat carrier (technically we have three herds). Then the cages would need to be broken down here - moved over - and set up in the new place. Wow that would be a lot of work for sure!!!!

[luvmyzoocrew]

Originally Posted by clotho

Wow I am so sorry that is happening to you!!! I am SO proud of you for not giving up your boys and being willing to move to keep them!!!

I Second that, there are so many people out there would have said goodbye to there piggies and you are moving.

[PhoenixFeather]

Originally Posted by tattooyu

I'm pretty sure our signed lease has a clause about pets. I suppose we could try and fight it, but at that point the mgmt. company has the right to give us a 3-day notice...you read that correctly, THREE days...to throw us out.

I think you may have a case for estoppel, based on your having been allowed to live there with the pets for 4 years, but if the landlord is now claiming she didn't know or told you to get rid of them or something, then you might not. I understand the desire to not risk a three-day notice period!

Good luck with the move, and I hope this turns out to have a silver lining and you find some unexpected advantage of your new place!

[tattooyu]

Thank you for all your support everyone. There's just no way we could part with them. I think I'd rather die. They're our babies. People always tease my wife and I about them: "You guys really need to have kids!"



Luckily, my friend from elementary school is now an attorney and he's very familiar with housing rights. We may have a case should we choose to fight it.

Whilst "looking the other way" about our pigs (yet knowing we had them), her son actually helped feed them when we went on vacation! We've actually only had our pigs two years but have lived there 3 1/2 years.

I'm actually surprised that people could dump their pets simply because of a move. Have they no soul?

[Alusdra]

Well, a lot of times it's the other way around than how you or I would be thinking of it. More like: "Oooh! And I can dump my pets since I'm moving. What a great excuse to get off my butt and get rid of them." They may try to clothe it more like they're doing it for the best interest of the animal... but yeah. I don't really get it, either. If you get an animal you have a pet for life. Period. (Excepting taking in an animal for a foster/rescue situation, of course).

[ctinaw]

Originally Posted by tattooyu

Thank you for that document. I really appreciate that. Looks like our landlord may have unknowingly waived that clause of our lease.

I will consider what you have said, but it just might not be feasible for us to do that. Moving might actually turn out to be easier. Plus, there are places around here that do accept pets willingly.

As far as being easier - I don't know what is easier than just explaining what you now know about the laws regarding this and telling them you will remain until your lease ends.

Now, bearing in mind what I said they are free to rewrite your lease and terminate it when your current lease expires.

But there is NO reason you should have to move within 30 days or before your current lease expires.

I would think that is easier than trying to find something affordable and acceptable within LA within 30 days.

There is not a court in existence that would side with your landlord or property owner. You have every right to be there until your lease ends.

You need to contact your property owner - NOT the landlord - and tell them about the oral contract you had with the landlord. I am sure they already know as well as I that this is legally binding. They will try to strong arm you and tell you - oh well, she was wrong so that isn't valid. Do not fall for that garbage. Tell them if they intend to evict you for having guinea pigs after you were told by the landlord that you were allowed to have them that you will be hiring a lawyer and they can take you to court over it. Also let them know you are only asking to stay until the remainder of your lease is up (which is all you could really get away with anyway since they would rewrite the lease). I can almost GUARANTEE at this point that they will back down.

Make sure you are talking to someone of authority and not the receptionist. I think the message will be loud and clear.

Do be aware that *you* wouldn't be taking anyone to court. If tehre was a court hearing which would highly surprise me, they would have to be taking you - and they would not win. So really you have nothing to worry about.

Do try to at least talk to them first though!!! Don't just let it go. Chances are once you even start to talk tenant law with them they will be like "ohhh kay, you can stay until your lease end."