What now?

[munchkin]

I am having the worst week. Rocky is sick again. I just don't know what to do. Just in the last two days we have spent over $700.00 in vet bills and they still don't know what is wrong with my little angel. They have checked him for everything from bladderstones to diabetes and can't find any answers. So, I thought I'd come here and see what you guys thought. First let me say his appetite hasn't changed, he is still eating as much as ever, but he is drinking a whole lot more and peeing a whole lot more. His weight is dropping slowly and he just doesn't seem to be as active as he used to be. The vet seems confident that it has something to do with his urinary tract, because he goes so much now. But he can't find any signs of infection or anything else out of the norm.. Maybe some of you can tell me what some of these numbers mean and if anything stands out to you.

weight - 1010gr
PCV - 42%
Bilirubin - 0.7mg/dl
calcium - 9.9mg/dl
Glucose - 111mg/dl
Protein total - 6.1g/dl
urea nitrogen 30mg/dl
ALT - 27%
AST - 43%
Neutrophil seg - 34%
Lymphocytes - 57%

That is all he gave me. I don't even know what half of this stuff is, let alone what is normal. He did say that the Protein and urea nitrogen were a little on the high side of normal and was something he wanted to watch more closely but it was still within the normal range. Anyway, I am supposed to bring him back thursday for more blood tests and yet another x-ray. For now, he is resting comfortably, but his weight loss really has me worried. The vet did say it is possible that he had diabetes and it has corrected itself. Okay is that even possible with guinea pigs because both my daughter and my husband have diabetes and they are life long illnesses in us humans. But if it had corrected itself, shouldn't he be starting to gain weight again instead of losing between 1 and 2 grams a day?

If anyone has any ideas as what to check next, I'd really appreciate it. We just can't seem to pinpoint why he is losing so much weight. The drinking and going to the bathroom I could live with if only he were at the very least, maintaining his weight. He is just so thin. Three to four year old boys should not weigh 1010 grams. Especially considering he was 1250 before all this started last month.

I don't know if you remember, but last month he had a minor stress thing and it caused a flora imbalance which the vet quickly took care of and he had actually started to gain some weight back. But then this thing hit about two weeks ago. The vet thought it was just the same thing and put him back on what he calls the "poop smoothie." He lost a lot of weight, down to 1045gr during that whole ordeal.

Any little thing no matter how small, if it is even a remote possibility. We are running out of things to check, and Rocky is tired of being in quarentine. He misses his buddy.

[PiggieMom]

Is Rocky a satin by any chance? I know they have problems with bone density loss. I'm really sorry he's not doing well. I would post this on GL as well if you already haven't. I hope someone can give you some ideas. I'll be keeping you two in my thoughts.

[munchkin]

We really aren't sure what Rocky is. But this is a picture of him before he got sick. maybe someone else can see something that my Vet and I are missing.



We actually aren't even sure of his age. Three to four years is just my vets best guess based on his weight and the fact that his nails were so long when I brought him in for his first wellness check. He eats oxbow pellets and gets plenty of veggies. His diet is great, but for some reason he just can't seem to maintain his weight. He still eats lots and lots of hay and right now the vet wants him to have 1/2 a cup of pellets a day to try to get him to gain some weight, but before, his diet was pretty standard. He got:
1-2 leaves of lettuce, depends on what I found that week. (romaine, red or green leaf or butter, sometimes others)
1/4 of a bell pepper red, orange or yellow, (he doesn't like the green)
a slice or two of zuccini
cilantro - not sure how much
a grape tomato
about half of a baby carrot ( I use the matchstick carrots.)
then I would add in other veggies on a rotating basis things like cucumber, broccoli and pumpkin.
about 1/8 cup of pellets
lots and lots of hay; timothy, orchard or burmuda.

So I'm pretty sure it wasn't his diet. I just don't know what else to do.

[salana]

Suzi had pancreatitis once, and had PCV values of 44%. I'm not sure exactly what PCV measures, but I seem to remember that it was correlated with anemia.

If you still have any money, I would get a full blood panel, including stuff like amylase.

The only thing I would change about your diet for him is to take the romaine out of the lettuce rotation, and add greens with a higher Ca:P ratio such as chicory and kale.

[MetallichicA]

Packed Cell Volume... I can't find anything on what the recommended level for guinea pigs is, though. I'm googling right now for PCV Pancreas Packed Cell Volume if you want to try that out and see if you can find anything.

<edit> Ah, it's the ratio of red blood cells in the blood. Maybe it's related to pancreatitis but just a symptom of it. </edit>

<2nd edit> And I found a site that says 42% is the average normal percentage for piggies. </2nd edit>

[Ly&Pigs]

This would be a good question for the medical forum at guinealynx.

I haven't had a pig with pancreatitis but I had it myself once and it was one of the most excrutiating things I've ever dealt with. I ended up in bed on major painkillers for a couple weeks and hardly able to do anything. I can't imagine a piggie going through pancreatitis like I had it, ugh.

[munchkin]

Salana, thanks for the diet tip. I'll try that. He likes kale, I've never tried chicory. I'll let my vet know about the pancreatitis. I'm willing to suggest anything at this point.

MetallichicA, thanks for the info. So his PCV is normal then. Hey I guess that is something, right? I just have no idea what any of these numbers mean except for the Glucose, but like I said, I have two diabetic family members. I wonder if there is a way to test a guinea pigs blood at home and what the normal ranges should be. I'd like to see what it does after he eats. Mainly because the more I think about it, the more it seems like he is acting like my daughter before she was diagnosed. Always drinking, always in and out of the bathroom, she would come home from school and take a nap nearly every day. And she was 11 at the time. Most 11 year olds don't take naps for any reason. I think I'm going to call my vet real quick.

[salana]

The glucose is fine at 111. I believe the normal range for pigs is 60-125 or 80-125. You can test at home by taking a drop of blood from a disinfected foot. Use a meter which lets you take as little as 1 microliter, and a NON superfine lancet (it's hard to squeeze out a big enough drop from a tiny hole with an angry pig). I have a disposable kit from Walgreens called the Sidekick, with a meter and 50 strips, for Suzi. She is quite fat (abnormally for her), drinks and pees a lot, and is in the 160 range.

[chisky]

Could it be that the diet is such that at times he is getting food which would keep his diabetes in the normal range and sometimes eats things which throws it off.

My dad had adult onset diabetes and controlled it only by diet for several years, after awhile he started taking a pill, but kept the strict diet until he was around 76 and then he went on insulin.

[munchkin]

My vet said the same thing, about 60 to 125. I have access to the meters. My husband and daughter use that freestyle elite meter that you can take the blood from anywhere because it uses such a small drop.

I'm going to try guinea lynx too. Hopefully someone over there will have some more ideas. Because honestly, I don't know how much more weight Rocky can lose; he is just so thin.

[munchkin]

I just wanted to update everyone on what is going on with rocky. Though we still aren't real sure what is wrong, guinealynx gave us a few things to look at. My vet has also asked that he keep Rocky a few days to watch how and when he eats, and to monitor how much he is actually eating and drinking. Rocky will be spending the weekend with him. I guess we will know more on Monday. until then, it is just a waiting game. But the vet is going to use this time to try him on lotensin, recomended to us by one of the guinealynx members for heart problems, as sometimes pigs don't show any signs beyond weight loss for heart problems. I was asked to bag up exactly what I feed him in a day, and separate it by time of day and bring it in. Everything will be weighed and measured before he eats and anything left over will be weighed and measured to find out exactly how much of what he is eating, and drinking. So far, there is still no definite reason for the weight loss.

[PiggieMom]

I hope they figure out what's wrong with poor Rocky. We'll be keeping our fingers, toes and paws crossed for the little guy. It sounds like you have a very good vet.

[chisky]

Best of luck, I hope that you find out what is wrong with Rocky and get a good result and cure with the Doctor

[munchkin]

Okay, first let me appologize for not being around this week to tell you all how rocky has been fairing and what was wrong with him. It has been a crazy week. I only thought I was having a bad week before. I have a niece who got involved with drugs and had her kids taken by CPS last year. Well this week she was stripped of her parental rights. (took them long enough.) Well, we all had to undergo an inspection to find out who could adopt the kids. Then after that was over, my husband developed kidney stones, my daughter ended up in the hospital with ketosis, and all the while I was struggling with Rocky. I'm exhausted.

Anyway, I have a new vet, he is nearly 85 miles away, but it is worth the drive. It took him about five minutes to diagnose Rocky and treat him. Rocky had a cut on his gum and impacted mouth pouches. The cut had gotten infected and absessed. If the vet I was using had bothered to look at the x-rays more closely he would have seen the impaction and been able to treat it last week and Rocky wouldn't be so ill now. His weight is dangerously low and he is on a special diet to help him gain weight more rapidly. He will be fine if we can just get him over 800 grams. Basically this is what was told to me. It became painful for him to eat, but since he was starving, he continued to try, packing more and more food into his pouches compounding the problem. It is rare, but it probably started with the cut. A hard piece of hay or a rather tough pellet could have cut his pouch. He tried to pack the pouch to ease the pain. But it got infected and that caused more pain. Well, since cleaning out the impaction and treating the cut, Rocky hasn't stopped eating. He eats everything. He is gaining weight like crazy, but it will be a while before he gets to a "safe" weight. So, after over $900.00 and then traveling 85 miles, I am happy to say that with a course of antibiotics and a proper diet, Rocky will be just fine.

On a side note, I have to say, I liked my old vet just fine, but unless it is a time sensitive emergency, I think I would rather drive the 85 miles to see Dr. J. He really knows what he is doing and since we already had all the blood work and x-rays, it only cost me $67.00, meds included. So, from now on, I'm not messing with waiting for the old vet to try to figure out what is wrong. I'm packing the car and driving the extra distance. I didn't even know this guy treated guinea pigs. He doesn't advertise it the way my old vet did. I guess when you are good, you don't have to.

[daftscotslass]

Originally Posted by munchkin

Anyway, I have a new vet, he is nearly 85 miles away, but it is worth the drive. It took him about five minutes to diagnose Rocky and treat him. Rocky had a cut on his gum and impacted mouth pouches. The cut had gotten infected and absessed. If the vet I was using had bothered to look at the x-rays more closely he would have seen the impaction and been able to treat it last week and Rocky wouldn't be so ill now. His weight is dangerously low and he is on a special diet to help him gain weight more rapidly. He will be fine if we can just get him over 800 grams. Basically this is what was told to me. It became painful for him to eat, but since he was starving, he continued to try, packing more and more food into his pouches compounding the problem. It is rare, but it probably started with the cut. A hard piece of hay or a rather tough pellet could have cut his pouch. He tried to pack the pouch to ease the pain. But it got infected and that caused more pain. Well, since cleaning out the impaction and treating the cut, Rocky hasn't stopped eating. He eats everything. He is gaining weight like crazy, but it will be a while before he gets to a "safe" weight. So, after over $900.00 and then traveling 85 miles, I am happy to say that with a course of antibiotics and a proper diet, Rocky will be just fine.

I'm a bit sceptical of this. Guinea pigs do not have cheek pouches and do not store food in their mouth in any way like hamsters do. Unless your vet just meant that the inside of the cheek was abcessed.

[munchkin]

Well, I was standing right there and "eww" does not even begin to cover what he pulled out of his cheeks. I don't know about pouches, it was the area right behind the buccal pads. I know there was a whole lot of hay and half chewed pellet and veggies in there. Maybe he was just trying to cover the cut. It was really gross. He showed me the cut and it was abscessed. He even cultured the puss. Rocky has improved ten fold since having all that gunk cleaned out, being on the antibiotics for four days now, along with pain meds. Maybe there is a different word for the area behind the buccal pads and the vet just called them a pouch to help me understand, I don't know, but I do know Rocky is acting like his old self again since having that "area" cleaned out and the abscess drained. He is gaining weight and very active again, so I am happy. Whatever that area is called, it was full of junk and it was a hard mass, and man did it smell. He said it was very rare that it happens, but it can under the right circumstances. Yes, it probably started with the cut and abscess, but believe me,I know what he pulled out of there.

Please don't take this as being harsh, It isn't intended to be, But I was the one standing there when he pulled all that gunk out. I'm not saying that you are wrong. I don't know enough to say o