Attn: ALL Members (a must read)

[VoodooJoint]

Oh boy, we have another one! Seems every few months or so someone comes along that is going to teach us a thing or two.

Aeon/Kat - What exactly is the point of your post if not to try to get a rise out of people?

If you have such a problem with the rules here then leave. Most people are able to deal with them fine though and it is only occasionally that someone is so smug and self righteous as to try to pick them apart.

If you must know though;

Originally Posted by aeonkat

It's "smilies" not the slang netspeak "smileys".

smilies
emoticon

smil·ey [FONT=Arial Unicode MS]/[/FONT]ˈsmaɪli[FONT=Arial Unicode MS]/[/FONT]Pronunciation Key[FONT=Arial Unicode MS] - [/FONT]Show Spelled Pronunciation[FONT=Arial Unicode MS][[/FONT]smahy-lee[FONT=Arial Unicode MS]][/FONT]Pronunciation Key[FONT=Arial Unicode MS] - [/FONT]Show IPA Pronunciationnoun, plural ‑eys, adjective
–noun 1.a sideways representation of a smiling face, :‑), or similar combination of symbols, as ;‑), a winking face, or :‑(, a sad face, created by keystrokes and used to communicate humor, sarcasm, sadness, etc., in an electronic message. Compare emoticon. –adjective

Seems to me either is appropriate smarty pants.

Originally Posted by aeonkat

I think putting smilies (like a smile face) in my posts shows a friendly tone.

A post littered with 20, unneeded smileys (or smilies) is hard to read and annoying in the same manner that colored and fancy fonts are. If you have to be so juvenile as to need to use a plethora of smilies in every post then join a kids' forum. They love that stuff there.

Originally Posted by aeonkat

Is voicing an opinion considered mouthy

Unless you can read some of the replies we get in our PM boxes then you do not know what we mean by "mouthy". Do not assume that we are incapable of adult and well-manners discussion about infractions.

Originally Posted by aeonkat

free speech that is done in a adult and respective manner.

Unlike your diatribe here--which is sophomoric at best.

Spend a little more time in the real world and spend a little more time researching how forum rules are applied and you will look less like a troll and more like a productive member.

Originally Posted by aeonkat

I have noticed a few moderators have not used the best grammar (laking commas, misuse of commas, past/present tense usage), spelling, and/or punctuation in some of their posts.

We hold the members to the same degree of posting that we do. Therefore the rules apply to all, in the same manner. Find me a post where someone was infracted for misusing a comma, mixing up past/present tense or making a couple of spelling errors in an otherwise well written post and I'll give you a cookie.

Originally Posted by aeonkat

There was a claim that not checking posts before submitting and forgetting capitalization and spelling errors are considered "lazy". I noticed you misspelled 'meant' in your second sentence.

We do not infract people for every misspelled word as everyone, gasp even me, hits the wrong key or gets a word wrong. What we are looking for are posts that are legible with at least a good effort made to spell correctly.

Originally Posted by aeonkat

It may not be laziness as much as hitting a key wrong, shift key not activating (as in my case at times),

Gee, I noticed that you have received a lot of infractions for those incidental times when the shift key doesn't take. Let me count all of those. Wait! You have not received any infractions for that at all! Kinda, blows that theory right out of the water for you doesn't it?

Originally Posted by aeonkat

The idea of punishing or banning someone based on punctuation, spelling, and grammar mistakes is completely condescending and inappropriate.

Do you run a forum? Do you know what it is like to give someone multiple chances to abide by the rules only to have them ignore you again and again? There comes a point where restricting their privileges is completely appropriate. It is also a very rare thing to happen and restrictions are only used in extreme cases.

Originally Posted by aeonkat

Insulting members by calling them "lazy" or "stupid" for making common spelling/punctuation errors in hypocritical as well.

I don't believe we have ever called anyone stupid so that is reaching a bit.

Let me repeat myself. We do not punish people for "common" mistakes but for serious and repeated flaunting of the posting rules.

Originally Posted by aeonkat

As long as the post is clear and understandable it should be acceptable.

This is exactly what we expect. We do not expect or accept a post filled with chat speak, No capitalization at all (to the point of making it difficult to read), filled with ellipses instead of appropriate punctuation or the multitude of other very annoying things people will do to avoid having to move their fingers a tiny bit more.

Originally Posted by aeonkat

I am in college and I am taking English 102 (honors mind you) and my teacher isn't even as strict for final college essays as the rules here . Why? Because as long as it follows MLA format and rules, and is generally error free

Good for you and your teacher but last I checked neither you, nor your teacher are mods on this forum.

It's a good thing we actually do run this forum by those exact same guidelines though. You seem to have been so ready to jump to conclusions that you don't know a thing about it. Prove to me that the accusation you are making are true and I'll reconsider my stance. As it sits now you are, to coin a term, "full of hot air".

Originally Posted by aeonkat

They just want help and info for the beloved pets and yet the focus is on spelling and punctuation!

Please do a comparative post count for me between the ratio of posts about proper posting/guinea pig oriented. I am dismayed to find out that the majority of posting here is about writing habits and not guinea pigs. Like you I thought this forum was about our pets and I guess we really need to crack down on the huge number of topics that only have to do with properly posting since you say that they are essentially taking over the board.

Originally Posted by aeonkat

I truly hope my post is looked at with a mature (adult) and considerate attitude

Just because you can write fairly well does not make your post mature or considerate. It is nitpicking and accusational with no validity to back any of it up.

Originally Posted by aeonkat

Insulting and condescending.

Are you speaking of Ly's post or the thread you wrote? If I had to pick which one was insulting and condescending I would have to pick yours.

Originally Posted by aeonkat

you forgot to put a comma before 'but' in your second to the last sentence.

One should not point out the lacking comma before someone else's but without first pulling the stick out of their own butt.

[aeonkat]

Expressing concerns is not to get a rise out of people. Sorry my post has gotten a rise out of you. Maybe you are being too defensive. Something to think about. Obviously I care about the forum or I wouldn't even bother.

Sophomore? I need to spend more time in the real world? Seriously? Oh man...you're right, spending more time in the REAL world will definitely help me act better on cyberspace. *insert laugh* YOUR accusations and ASSumptions lack evidence and therefore are incongruous. You personally do not know me so there is no point in stating I need to spend time in the real world. The irony in that post is laughable. Insulting me is no way to prove your point, it only makes it look juvenile.

Doesn't matter if I run this forum or not. Forums are for members and moderators are supposed to make sure things are appropriate for those members and everything go smooth. Going above and beyond that smells of power-tripping and fear-based moderating.

I happen to know how an adult message board should run as I have been a part of two for the past 4 years and I am a moderator for one (I have references if one desires). Don't ASSume that I don't just because I have a problem with your over the top spelling and punctuation rules. The way the two of you have 'spoke' is insulting and condescending and posting that here seems to implicate that the entire board is "lazy". If certain members are breaking the rules and its a small ratio as you claim, then a respectful and mature moderator would address those people only and not make another thread about rules and regulations so the members who mess up here and there are nervous about being banned (hence the many replies such as "I'm sorry...I don't spell well, I'll try harder!").

I would really like to see one post with 20 emoticons. You are exaggerating to prove your point and the behavior is juvenile.

What exactly would be a punishable post? 1 error? 5 errors? 10 errors? Thats the part I have a problem with. The rules are dripping with self-righteousness and hypocrisy. In one post you call the posters who mess up (because obviously if they were doing it on purpose like you claim) then why would you call people "lazy" for not proof-reading their posts? THAT is implicating members who occasionally make a mistake, hence the rude request that they "stop being so lazy". So which is it? Lazy posters who don't proof-read every single post, every single time or people who purposely post with a disregard for your many warnings and rules? By your own standard, you were quite lazy for not proof-reading your post. I am sure you don't like being called lazy for a silly spelling error just as I am sure other members do not. I am sure by your response, that me pointing out your spelling error perturbed you enough to defend it.

The enforcing of the rules ARE nitpicking and condescending. As a member of this forum I have the right to express that and a mature response shouldn't be "well leave then!" Sounds like something my 6 year old would say. Maybe it should be taken into consideration since you contradict yourself in a few of them. Maybe a revision of said rules to specifically state who rules/enforcement apply to (i.e. people who purposely refuse to spell correctly or punctuate correctly to where their posts are unreadable). I have only had trouble reading some of the posters where English is their second language which is to be expected. You had a poster who didn't speak English very well think she should leave the forum. Your posts obviously need clarification so maybe a more clear and specific rule would be more appropriate.

If you don't think nitpicking about spelling errors/punctuation are taking away from the atmosphere here you are sadly mistaken. Its one thing to expect readable posts than to complain and warn over forgetting to not capitalize an "i" (which is exactly what Ly's post was doing...I believe those who do not are considered "lazy"). I think Ly should apologize for insulting members and calling them lazy.

Calling pot! It's kettle here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeonkat
I truly hope my post is looked at with a mature (adult) and considerate attitude

Just because you can write fairly well does not make your post mature or considerate. It is nitpicking and accusational with no validity to back any of it up.

BTW accusation is a noun and you are using it as an adjective here.

It states right in the policies/rules that insulting is not allowed. I don't understand why it is ok to call someone lazy. You did agree that moderators should live up to the rules so why is calling people lazy ok?

[VoodooJoint]

You didn't get a rise out of me. You amused me just like writing it must have been amusing to you. Your post seemed to be aimed at trying to get a rise out of people.

You are correct, I misused the word "accusation" and even (dare I) created a new form of it "accusational". I'm aware that it isn't really a word but it got the point across and proves the "stick in butt" theory.

Maybe you are correct. Maybe we should allow people to post however they like as long as one person is able to read it then it's all good, right? Maybe failure to use that shift key isn't being lazy. Let's see.

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]if peeple postlike this is lazy, childish and hard to read...personally i cant stand it but hey...as long as the prson posting liks it i guess that maybe the rules r2 strict and u are rite..and people should post however they want cuz its gr8...y dont i add a bunch of smilies...or is it smileys...to decorate my lttl post 2... there...thats bettr...now its all colorful and pretty and everyone will smile when they lQQk @ it...if i write long enuf and add enuf smilies...or smileys...then maybe i can give u and every1 else a headache...oops...im out of smilies...or smileys...and can't do the headache 1....while im at it why don't i ask abut a serious health problem my guinepig is having..im sure it will b easy to find the info in the middle of a post written lik this donchu think...[/FONT]

So get off your high horse and back up your accusations with examples of where we punished someone for one, simple spelling, grammar, capitalization or punctuation mistake. If you cannot provide such proof then you are, one again, "full of hot air.

I am going to allow your over capitalizing of the word "assume" slide this time, but it is lightly veiled swearing. You know it and I know it. If you want to claim to be mature then act like it. If you do it again then you will be infracted for breaking the rules. If you bother posting on this topic again without proving proof to back up your statements then I will unapproved your post and set this thread to moderated status until you manage to cool down.

[aeonkat]

Originally Posted by Ly&Pigs

I have to say that I am getting tired of the posting laziness going on around here lately. I am seeing too many posts with some capitalization but the "I's" are just being ignored. Stop being lazy members and remember to capitalize your "I's" and any other words that need capitalizing. Also remember to punctuate correctly. If this doesn't stop, this mod is going to start jumping on those who are being lazy.

This is the post I mainly was referring to. Ly states there are some capitalization and that "I" is being ignored. Ly then goes on to state that we should stop being lazy members and then threatens to jump on those who are being lazy members. No where in that post is there clarification that being punished is for members who purposely ignore rules and warnings. Ly was very clear with whom he/she was referring to. The bolded part is offensive and insulting and nitpicking. Ly does not voice your opinion those who excessively refuse to capitalize are the only ones punished (which I kinda agree with). Ly seems to establish that those who are lazy members and do not capitalize "I"s will be punished as well.

I agree with the example you gave to be annoying and unnecessary. I do not agree with a mod who threatens and insults members (Ly was not specific and used the word "members" so one would assume it was towards everyone) on capitalizing "I"s. If it were a small minority who do this I don't understand why Ly needed to threaten members who forgot to capitalize "I"s and punctuation in a public thread.

I have no problem following rules and being a part of a online community with a common interest. I do not and will not sit by and have a mod insult me or any member for something so trivial as not always capitalizing the letter "I". I expect, and you have stated as well, that moderators live by the same rules instilled on members. If I am going to be punished (or any other member) for punctuation/spelling mistakes and if I were to insult someone than I think moderators should be as well. Also, I noticed in the rules that are linked that moderators are fair game to receive an "impaction".

So in the interest of being fair, I think Ly should apologize for calling members lazy and receive an impaction. Granted, it is not up to me, but in my humble opinion it would be the fair and appropriate thing to do in regards to the guidelines that have been set forth for participating in the forum.

Thank you for your time and consideration on this matter.

Kat

P.S. Spell check does not catch lower case "I"s so one might pass over a uncapitalized "I" during proof-reading accidentally.

[VoodooJoint]

You are exaggerating.

I agree with the statements Ly made. What Ly, and other mods/admin say, along with what the rules say, and how the execution of the rules are carried out are different things.

I, and other mods, have made repeated reminders of the rules of this forum in very no-nonsense and strict wording. Not one of us has ever given someone an infraction for a couple of lower case letters or a misspelled word if, in general, the rest of the post and the member's posting habits are generally good.

We will infract someone if they continually post poorly. We used to have to give public and PM warnings before the infraction system was set up though. With the new, more private and easy system, there is a lot less embarrassment and hassle on the boards until someone decides to made a public fuss about it.

An example of someone who just didn't get it is in a post that used to be on this thread. The post was deleted from public view by request of the original, now banned member. Just to satisfy your curiosity the member that posted the below comment was banned for starting alter-egos and trolling.

Hey ppl, im new to dis place so id thought i shud write sumfin ..... so hello howz evry1

Even you must agree that the above post is unacceptable. It was even placed in a thread about posting properly. If we do not call people on posts like this though then the entire forum turns into a chat room and nothing useful would get accomplished.

Ly does not owe anyone an apology for reminding people of the rules and telling them not to be lazy.

If your problem lies with Ly then this whole thing should have been taken to the PM system or you should have emailed the owner with your concerns. A diatribe against one moderator or member does not belong on the public boards.

Since you have failed in producing the proof I asked for but posted anyway I am making the thread into a temporarily moderated thread. That means any responses will need moderator approval before they will appear for the general public.

[CavySpirit]

Aeonkat, you really need to move on from this. You chose to stretch the literal meaning of the word lazy as some general character assassination by Ly against members. Clearly, she is only referring to lazy posting habits. And that is quite an appropriate way to phrase it.

We can all be guilty of it; we all know it causes less than optimum posts. Her use of the word was NOT derogatory to anyone's character.

As an honors English student, I would think you would appreciate that words and messages should be kept in context.

Also, unlike other adult forums, our forum faces a challenge in that the majority of posters are kids who are quite used to and comfortable with chat speak and think there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. This is why we have to go to such great lengths to keep an adult-level of maturity of posting on the forum.

If you aren't comfortable with how we run the forum, there are many others on which you can participate.

And I agree with VJ's putting this thread on temporary moderated status. I consider this particular discussion closed. You can PM if you've got something else you want to say.

[Ly&Pigs]

I think Ly should apologize for insulting members and calling them lazy.

I am not apologizing to anyone nor do I owe anyone an apology. The post you are referring to is almost 1 year old. At that time we did have a lot of lazy posting going on. We did not have the impaction system in place at that time. We mods spent a lot of time, and I do mean a lot of time, sending pm's to individuals with horrid capitalization and punctuation only to receive many replies back that were full of cursing and telling us where to "put" our forum. Some members were apologetic and admitted they were "lazy".

AeonKat, if you have a personal problem with me, it needs to be taken off the boards and discussed with me privately or you can take your matter to CavySpirit.

[PiggieMamaKelly]

I don't get why people hang around a place they so despise just to talk about how they despise it. If I hated bakeries, I wouldn't spend my time in a bakery telling everyone how awful baking bread is, and that cupcakes really shouldn't have frosting, and sprinkles are offensive. I probably would just stay out of bakeries.

[MudFrog]

What if we can't find our original thread? I have looked at all mine and I don't see my first thread. Hmmm I don't want to get in trouble but would like to ask a question....

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by MudFrog

What if we can't find our original thread? I have looked at all mine and I don't see my first thread. Hmmm I don't want to get in trouble but would like to ask a question....

Since you only have 11 posts it would be easy.

Click on your name on one of your posts and choose "find all posts by MudFrog". All of the posts you made will show up. Click on the right one and it will take you to that thread.

[seagirl96]

Perhaps calling Aeonkat sophomoric was a compliment. As the mother of two young men who have grown up and moved on, I recognise the marks of a college freshman who has learned Everything. Thank goodness they do recover from this phase. Ly&pigs, I appreciate your patience with this rant. I think reading the number of times Aeonkat has been thanked for a useful post sums it all up nicely.

[seagirl96]

Excuse me VoodooJoint. I see you were supplying a great number of the intelligent responses. I didn't mean to overlook you.

[Guill713]

English 102 is a Freshman course, at least where I went it was.

I can't believe that such a fuss is being made over a post so old. If you following the rules, then you won't be impacted in the least bit.

Welcome to last year!

[seagirl96]

Thanks for the voice of reason, Guill73 and for getting back to the subject. The rules are simple, clear, straight-forward and politely stated. I find it much easier to read posts where the writer has made their best attempt to spell, punctuate and not use shortcuts like web-speak.

[masher]

I agree with Guill73, Lypigs, Voodoojoint etc obviously have different views on this subject than Aeonkat, But as it is not aeonkats forum, she must respect the rules.

I must be honest, and admit when first joining this forum, I thoguht the rules regarding punctuation, spelling etc. Were abit over-the-top, and they did slightly put me off posting, for fear of "making a mistake." But I really respect these rules now, and can clearly see the reason for them, I have taken part in too many forums with slack grammer, capitilazation rules, and I do agree it makes posts a heck of alot harder to read.

[Guill713]

Also, this isn't a personal forums for people just to shoot the (well you know) about pigs. People here are actually informed and know what they're talking about. Most of the other forums I'm a part of are just my friends' and such that just talk about cars and music. (As I am a car and a music freak as well.) If one just makes the slightest conscience attempt at and sounding intelligent, then that post will not have any problems.

[Ledasmom]

I suppose it is possible that a poster might need smilies to convey the proper emotion, but I have never seen it. For instance, the emotions in aeonkat's posts in this thread came across, I thought, quite clearly without recourse to smilies at all.

[guineapigfan9000]

Since it is not technically a dictionary word it probably doesn't matter if they are "smilies" or "smileys". In fact, emoticon is a better term (I think) because some are not smiling at all!
And VJ, your sample of chatspeak almost did give me a headache! I don't mind different fonts but is there a way you can stop people from posting in pink? I mean, when is anybody actually going to need to post in pink?
I agree with VJ also about the lack of comma before "but". That is a tiny mistake that some computers wouldn't even pick up.
There is obviously a different between a sentence like this:
My guinea pig has a temparature of 40 degrees Celsius.
(spelling mistake in a very long, complicated word)
And this:
[FONT=Comic Sans MS]hello ppl how U doin[/FONT]
(my head...)

There is a problem with the spell-check on this site though. My computer says it has to download something, but unfortunately (you know, I almost spelt that 'infortunately") my computer never manages to download anything from the Internet. Is there any way to fix this?

[Ly&Pigs]

Most people post in bright colors because they don't take the time to stop and read the forum rules, policies and guidelines. If the newbies would read those threads first, it would save us mods a lot of work. As soon as we notice any posts made in all color, bold or some hard to read font, we edit and remove the bold, colors, etc.

Members can also report posts that are in all bold or colored. Members can also report posts that contain bad/wrong information, dangerous information, spam or suspected trolls or report posts for a variety of other reasons they deem appropriate. Members aren't supposed to call anyone a troll but inform us mods they think someone may be a troll.

GPfan- what browser are you using?

[Ly&Pigs]

I've noticed over the last few weeks that more and more members are signing their screen names under their posts. We don't allow signature lines and there really is no reason for you all to put your names in your posts as we already know who you are as your member name is at the top of your post. We mods would really appreciate it if you would not put your names at the bottoms of your posts anymore as it serves no purpose. Thanks.