Seperate or not?

**Ball Lightning** · #1 10-04-05, 09:59 am

Hello cavyslaves,

I have two boars: Gino and Joey. They are about 7 (Gino) and 6 (Joey) months now. They lived in the same cage since I built my new large cage. That is 4 months ago now. Gino is the domitate one (Rumblestrutting, chasing around, threatening a bit now and then), but is despite his older age, 1,5 inch smaller than Joey (in lenght but in with too; joey seems stronger built). Joey is a real stand alone cavy; he doesn't care much what Gino is doing, mostly ignores him completely. He is always doing his own thing. Gino loves to tease Joey. Joey normally turns away or just wins a nose fase-off (because he is bigger and stronger) and then continue what he was doing.

Today, I came home, hearing loud teeth clattering. There they stood: both hair right up, arched backs, clattering, ready for a real face-off. Before I could react, they jumpt to each other once, trying to bite. Because Joey is the biggest, he could bite Gino on one "nosehole", and in his lower lip (all in one bite, I guess he did that with his two teath). Gino backed down, retreated to a corner, clunched together, with his eyes half-shut. He kept wiping his paw to his nose, so I took him out to examine him, seeing the (not so critical) light wounds. Joey returned to whatever he was doing as if nothing happened.

When I tried to put Gino back in his cage, he suddenly jumped with all his might out of my hands, falling to the ground from 3 feet. It seems to me he panicked when he noticed he had to go back, but of this I'm not sure. I was in shock, and kept him with me for over an hour petting him and examine him for broken bones and such. Fortunately, everything seems allright.

I seperated the two, because my girlfriend said they were doing the same threatening thing the day before too. I consulted this site for help what to do, but I am more unsure now then before. On this site they say that most owners seperate their cavy too soon (that is when they attacked each other lightly, before full combat). But then again, I saw the combination of non-verbal attitude and noises that are described at critical combat behaviour. Did I do the right thing by seperating them? Or did I seperate too quickly? I hope you can help me out here...

PS: Gino is doing completely fine. he is still a bit shocked, but runs around in his (very large) cage, eats normally and makes no sounds of being in pain. Phew, what a day it was...

Greets, Ron

**DocDolittle** · #2 10-04-05, 10:05 am

Was he bleeding, or was there hair taken from him? You also have to remember that the boys are going through puberty and their hormones are raging, that very well could have been the cause of this.

**Ball Lightning** · #3 10-04-05, 10:12 am

No hair was taken, it was were just small shallow wounds, like small cuts. There was some bleeding, but it already stopped and dried when I took him out for examination. That's why I am hesitate. I am planning to let them play with each other at floortime again and see how they react...

**cavy-cool-crazy** · #4 10-04-05, 10:14 am

Try a buddy bath if they are still threatening each other with biting, extreme teeth chattering, lunging and snorting. Keep a dustpan ready in case they do strat to fight again. The hackles going up cause the hair to stand up, and this usually occurs when they are threatened.

Have they both got their own pigloo, hay rack, litter tray, water bottle etc.?

DocDolittle made a valid point there of the puberty thing - they probably won't be fully matured until the are around 9-10 months old so there's no point in holding your breath for that stage to be over!

**DocDolittle** · #5 10-04-05, 10:15 am

I really don't know, then. How big is their cage? If you do separate them then you should put a divider in the cage if it's big enough, so they can see each other.

**Ball Lightning** · #6 10-04-05, 10:28 am

Their cage is a bit over 10 square feet, in this cage I placed Gino now. The other one is now in my old cage, which is just 6 square feet. The two caged are placed next to each other so they can touch each other with their nose. Gino has begun rumblestrutting again against the when they meet. Wow, these fluffy critters have instinct over brains for sure

.

So if I understand correctly you advise me to try once more, but with precausions in reach? I was also wondering if you seperate them for 4 months, will it be more difficult to join them again after that period? They will play with each other every day for 2 hours or more at floortime, so they won't be seperated forever. It is just that the two are home alone for more than half of the day, so I can not monitor them very well.

**cavy-cool-crazy** · #7 10-04-05, 10:37 am

Just putting pigs together for floor time isn't really a good idea - it means that they stress themselves out with the sorting out dominance only to be separated and be put through it all again the very next day.

I would put a divider in the cage if they don't get on too well still, and when you have plenty of time try introducing them again on neutral ground with a nice salad to distract them.

**Ball Lightning** · #8 10-04-05, 10:49 am

[quote=cavy-cool-crazy]Just putting pigs together for floor time isn't really a good idea - it means that they stress themselves out with the sorting out dominance only to be separated and be put through it all again the very next day.

Yeah, you are right there. I still didn't thought about that one. Maybe I just don't have to give up too soon. I will re-introduce them again this evening.

Say, that if they keep being really out-of-hand mean to each other, can I ever let them do floor time together? Or do I have to give them floor time seperately too?

**cavy-cool-crazy** · #9 10-04-05, 10:52 am

If they don't get on at all in the cage or out on floor time any more then give them separate floor times - it would cause them even more stress than usual to try giving them floor times together when you know they don't get on.

**Ly&Pigs** · #10 10-04-05, 02:13 pm

Give them a buddy bath and see if they will get along. They are in puberty and will have minor spats from time to time.

**Ball Lightning** · #11 10-05-05, 02:23 pm

I tried to let them meet on neutral terrain. Every doubt is gone now; within 5 minutes, they started fighting. Only thing that remains is the buddy bath. We are going to do this within 30 minutes. I'll keep you updated.

**philosopig** · #12 10-05-05, 02:33 pm

Good luck!!!
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

**Ball Lightning** · #13 10-05-05, 02:41 pm

I just read the bathing procedure again, and came to the conclusion that we don't have kitten shampoo. The bathing has to wait until tomorrow.

I have one question too: it was stated that the water had to be warm. How warm does it have to be? 20 degrees celsius, 30? And is it only to prevent the critter to catch a cold, or for some other reason?

And another question: after their puberty, is there a chance that the dominance issue cools down? Or is this situation permenent or too risky?

Thanks again.

**DocDolittle** · #14 10-05-05, 03:44 pm

You should be able to judge how warm it is just by touching it. It doesn't need to be a specific temperature, just warm.

**Ly&Pigs** · #15 10-05-05, 11:31 pm

They start fighting how, give me exact details please.

**Ball Lightning** · #16 10-06-05, 12:52 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ly&Pigs

They start fighting how, give me exact details please.

Ok, here goes: we did the dating game again, in the bedroom (they never been there before). The room was 2 feet with, 6 feet lenght. They started chasing around, but soon the younger one started to teeth clatter and yawmed a few times. The older one began to clatter also, but backed away, because he say that the older one meant it. the pulled back a few times, and went back to the other one. He even tried to escape once by climbing almost impossibly 70 degrees up to me. I put him back in their meeting space.
Then it began: neckhair raised, severe clattering, haunch raised, the younger one then came walking SIDEWAYS to the other, so that the other couldn't escape by passing him. It was really odd to see. It were real cavy war tactics. He leapt to the other one, who immediately reacted by leaping back. They started to "wrestle", rolling over the place very fast. We immediately threw a towel over them and I seperated them with an oven glove. One of them bit me lightly though the glove, because they couldn't see their target (but I think they would have bit me anyway).

Now their cages are next to each other, but the battle for dominance seems to go on. The are clattering constantly, and we are thinking to place the cages out of each other's sight if this will go on for a few days.

I hope I made myself clear.

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