What's wrong with keeping guinea pigs outside?

[Xeygwyn]

As has been stated, guinea pigs need hay. Also, try and follow the advice given, especially if it means a happier life for your piggies *and* you. My husband is highly allergic to Timothy hay, as we discovered, but we combat this with an air purifier, simple meds, and the fact that he loves them as much as I. We went out today and picked up Oxbow orchard grass, and already he seems better. On the note about the vets, they certainly aren't always the best place for advice, considering that the one who handled my Potter before I got him said he should be put down for a treatable abscess. He is a healthy piggy now. Just do what's best for the pigs in the long run, if you love them.

[Paula]

Hi Paula, are you a veterinarian? If not, please don't give me medical advice about my pigs. I talked to THREE different vets who assured me that they'll be absolutely fine without hay for a few weeks. It's not like I'm not gonna give them any type of hay ever again. Thanks.

My question would be why on earth you'd want animals you don't want or can't have in your home. Guinea pigs are pets, they aren't farm animals, they are companions and if you can't keep them as such, you're doing them, and yourself, a disservice.

And, frankly, I'm also surprised that you were able to find three vets who would tell you to allow a guinea pig to go without hay and have to suspect that they are vets who have absolutely no experience with or knowledge of guinea pigs ... or they're fictitious.

[Merrier]

@Merrier , I'm impressed! You've had a guinea pig for less than six weeks now, and you've already found THREE vets! That must be a record, especially considering that exotic vets are thin on the ground here in Texas. And you must have an unlimited vet fund if you can take a pig that isn't sick to three different vets in just six weeks time.

Many of the people on this forum, especially the moderators and administrators, have years of experience with guinea pigs. If they tell you that a pig needs hay, the pig needs hay. It's not only for the pig's benefit that we're telling you that, but also to protect your pocketbook from very expensive pig dental bills if you let it go too long without hay.

If you post on this forum, it's going to be assumed that you're asking for advice, especially since you're new to guinea pigs.

I suggested to you that you try a different kind of hay. But you stopped giving them hay, and so far as I can tell, didn't bathe the pigs. So they've still got whatever hay you had on them. If you really want to know if you're allergic to the pigs and not the hay, here are some things you can do (more unasked for advice):

1) Buy another kind of hay and sniff it and see if you have allergic symptoms. Or if you're having skin allergies, rub timothy on one arm and the other kind on the other, and see if both react.

2) Clean the cage, wash everything in it, bathe the pigs, and then handle them and see if you've still got symptoms.

Either one of those actions will give you information about your allergies.

1) What do you mean I FOUND 3 vets right away?? I have 3 dogs so obviously I know all the vets in my city. I said that 3 vets assured me that it would be perfectly fine to deprive my pigs from hay for a COUPLE OF WEEKS, doesn't mean I went in person. I spoke to them on the phone.

2) I never asked advice about whether or not I should feed my pigs hay. So I don't know where you get this from.

3) Just because you've had pigs for many years, read a few books about them, read online articles, and post on a forum does not make you wiser than a VETERINARIAN. It really shocks me that you expect me to take these peoples' instructions over that of the vets.

Just because I've driven a car for over 10 years, know how to change the oil, a tire, does NOT make me a mechanic! Would you let me change the breaks on your car then?? I would hope not. I understand giving advice about anything else BUT medical.

[Merrier]

My question would be why on earth you'd want animals you don't want or can't have in your home. Guinea pigs are pets, they aren't farm animals, they are companions and if you can't keep them as such, you're doing them, and yourself, a disservice.

And, frankly, I'm also surprised that you were able to find three vets who would tell you to allow a guinea pig to go without hay and have to suspect that they are vets who have absolutely no experience with or knowledge of guinea pigs ... or they're fictitious.

Paula,

1) I obviously did not know I'd be allergic to them.

2) I NEVER said I'm going to put my pigs outside. I would probably find them a new home instead. I'm trying my best to be able to keep them.

3) And about the vets... why would I make up that I spoke with three vets??? so that YOU can believe me?? I don't really care if you believe it or not, that's what they told me and that's what I'm gonna do. I'm really not trying to be rude, I appreciate the tips/advice but I'm gonna follow all medical advise from the veterinarians.

[PigPandemonium]

1) What do you mean I FOUND 3 vets right away?? I have 3 dogs so obviously I know all the vets in my city. I said that 3 vets assured me that it would be perfectly fine to deprive my pigs from hay for a COUPLE OF WEEKS, doesn't mean I went in person. I spoke to them on the phone.

2) I never asked advice about whether or not I should feed my pigs hay. So I don't know where you get this from.

3) Just because you've had pigs for many years, read a few books about them, read online articles, and post on a forum does not make you wiser than a VETERINARIAN. It really shocks me that you expect me to take these peoples' instructions over that of the vets.

Just because I've driven a car for over 10 years, know how to change the oil, a tire, does NOT make me a mechanic! Would you let me change the breaks on your car then?? I would hope not. I understand giving advice about anything else BUT medical.

That's also like saying a car mechanic knows all about bikes. Not all cat and dog vets know anything at all about guinea pigs. My mother trained as a vet for years, and knows all there is to know about cats and dogs but knows nothing at all about guinea pigs. But she got professional training. I've have a friend who is an exotic vet and have gotten lots of info from her, I even called her up about this matter, and she agreed with me on that fact that any vet that knows anything about guinea pigs would not have told you to deprive your pigs of hay for even that amount of time. She says she would have recommend getting rid of all the timothy hay in your home and buying a bag of orchard, then doing a full cage clean, wash the pigs, and put them back in a cleaned cage with the orchard. If you not longer have a reaction to the pigs while using the orchard instead of the timothy, then that's most likely what was affecting you.

[bpatters]

@Merrier , you go right ahead with those vets. They probably got one six or eight week rotation in the care of exotic pets, and it covered everything from hamsters to gorillas and giraffes in the zoo, and was concentrated on birds. Many, if not most, dog and cat vets will refuse to see guinea pigs because they don't know anything about them. I suspect your three vets fall into that "don't know anything" category.

But if you're interested, browse through the medical threads here and at Guinea Lynx (www.guinealynx.info) and see how many pigs have been killed by incompetent vet care, and then see if you still want to take the advice of those three veterinarians.

Exotic vets have to have extra schooling AFTER they're already veterinarians, and extensive internships and residencies to be qualified as specialized in exotics.

[Merrier]

That's also like saying a car mechanic knows all about bikes. Not all cat and dog vets know anything at all about guinea pigs. My mother trained as a vet for years, and knows all there is to know about cats and dogs but knows nothing at all about guinea pigs. But she got professional training. I've have a friend who is an exotic vet and have gotten lots of info from her, I even called her up about this matter, and she agreed with me on that fact that any vet that knows anything about guinea pigs would not have told you to deprive your pigs of hay for even that amount of time. She says she would have recommend getting rid of all the timothy hay in your home and buying a bag of orchard, then doing a full cage clean, wash the pigs, and put them back in a cleaned cage with the orchard. If you not longer have a reaction to the pigs while using the orchard instead of the timothy, then that's most likely what was affecting you.

Ok, so what is the name of your exotic animal vet? so I can look her up and give her a call at her animal clinic or maybe even taken my pigs to her?

[Merrier]

@Merrier , you go right ahead with those vets. They probably got one six or eight week rotation in the care of exotic pets, and it covered everything from hamsters to gorillas and giraffes in the zoo, and was concentrated on birds. Many, if not most, dog and cat vets will refuse to see guinea pigs because they don't know anything about them. I suspect your three vets fall into that "don't know anything" category.

But if you're interested, browse through the medical threads here and at Guinea Lynx (www.guinealynx.info) and see how many pigs have been killed by incompetent vet care, and then see if you still want to take the advice of those three veterinarians.

Exotic vets have to have extra schooling AFTER they're already veterinarians, and extensive internships and residencies to be qualified as specialized in exotics.

I specifically asked my primary vet if she had experience with guinea pigs and she said yes. But if my pigs die, get medical issues, or permanent consequences from her advice (which I strongly doubt), I'll be sure to report her to the AVMA. thanks.

[CavyMama]

It would not be out of line to say that many people here on this forum know more about proper guinea pig care than most veterinarians. I say this, not because we have a veterinary background but because as as been stated, most vets (even some exotics) have little to no training on guinea pigs.

I had two separate, supposedly exotic, vets tell me to give yogurt to my pigs when they needed a probiotic. Knowing that guinea pigs are lactose intolerant, I mentioned to them that yogurt wasn't a good idea for that reason.

And I agree with you that years of ownership does not necessarily equate to good care. Someone could own a bird for 10 years but have improperly cared for it all that time. The only thing they would be an expert in is improper bird care.

But people here focus solely on guinea pigs. They come here and learn by discussion and asking questions. They might change the way they provide care by what they learn here. For instance, they might change their store-bought cage to a C&C cage based on what is recommended here. Or they might change to a higher quality hay. Or learn how to clean perineal sacs.

The vets you spoke to are wrong. Unlimited access to hay is vital to guinea pig health. Depriving them of it, even for 5 days because of possible allergies that you have, isn't fair. You can try a different hay or get an air purifier or look into different types of allergy meds to relieve your symptoms.

[Merrier]

The vets you spoke to are wrong. Unlimited access to hay is vital to guinea pig health. Depriving them of it, even for 5 days because of possible allergies that you have, isn't fair.

You're absolutely right, let me go get the hay and put MY health at risk instead.

[guineapigs2468]

You're absolutely right, let me go get the hay and put MY health at risk instead.

I just wanted to say that no one is saying to put your health at risk, they are simply suggesting ways around your health issues, so that you are ok and your guinea pigs get all the food they need so they stay healthy.

[PigPandemonium]

Ok, so what is the name of your exotic animal vet? so I can look her up and give her a call at her animal clinic or maybe even taken my pigs to her?

She is not in Texas, she is in PA. You can call up any good exotic vet and they will tell you the exact same thing my vet, and everyone on this forum has told you.

[madelineelaine]

if you're allergic to them, then look into rehoming them. If you honestly think it's okay to deprive an animal of something it NEEDS to survive, because you aren't equipped to care for both the animal and yourself, then it's in the pigs best interest to be in a home with someone who will provide them with what they need.

and for gosh sake, give the poor pigs SOME form of hay.

[CavyMama]

You're absolutely right, let me go get the hay and put MY health at risk instead.

People have made suggestions about what you can do. Get an air purifier, try a different type of hay (not all will cause the same reaction), look into allergy medications.

But putting them outdoors or depriving them of hay is not an option. Without hay, their molars and incisors will become too long and cause malocclusion, which can lead to regular teeth trimming for the rest of their life. It will also cause their digestive tract to stop moving, which as you can imagine, can cause all sorts of other health problems. Both of these can lead to death if not treated.

[Merrier]

if you're allergic to them, then look into rehoming them.

I AM looking into the option of re homing them, do you think this happens over night???? And like I've said a thousand times, YES I do think its ok to take the hay for a couple of weeks because that's what my vets suggested. They seem fine, healthy, happy, they play and popcorn all the time. If I noticed something different or weird I'd obviously look into it.

[CavyMama]

YES I do think its ok to take the hay for a couple of weeks because that's what my vets suggested

You would be incorrect. It's definitely NOT okay to take hay away for weeks. As I mentioned, two separate vets suggested that I give my pigs yogurt as a probiotic. Just because a vet says it, doesn't mean it's good advice.

If malocclusion and slowing down digestion are things you consider to be "okay", there are bigger issues at play here because that's what will happen if pigs are deprived of hay for weeks.

[Paula]

Here's an idea. The whole time you're depriving your pigs of hay why don't you just skip water? Not food, of course, you can have whatever you want, just no beverages and absolutely NO water.

As for the process of rehoming them, since you have so many vet connections, why don't you network with them to find these animals a suitable home? Or advertise here, on Guinea Pig Zone, GuineaLynx, etc. I'm reasonably sure that as soon as you disclose that you're not giving them hay (for your health) on those sites, you'll easily find someone who can at least foster them until a good home is found, if not adopt them outright. Then you aren't risking your health, you aren't depriving your pets of a vital necessity, and aren't relegating them to a life outdoors where they're likely to be forgotten and overlooked, if they don't become the victim of a predatory animal or person in the neighborhood first. Perfect.

[CathiiPiggie]

I specifically asked my primary vet if she had experience with guinea pigs and she said yes. But if my pigs die, get medical issues, or permanent consequences from her advice (which I strongly doubt), I'll be sure to report her to the AVMA. thanks.

So you'd be willing to take that risk?
Being cavy savvy and having experience in guinea pigs can be different stories.
Did you ask the questions on this page: http://www.guinealynx.info/vet.html
Including some of these:

How many cavies do you see and treat each month?
What is the extent of your medical training regarding cavies?
Who would you recommend for an after hours emergency?

1) What do you mean I FOUND 3 vets right away?? I have 3 dogs so obviously I know all the vets in my city. I said that 3 vets assured me that it would be perfectly fine to deprive my pigs from hay for a COUPLE OF WEEKS, doesn't mean I went in person. I spoke to them on the phone.

Make sure they specialize in guinea pigs, asking the questions I posted above.

2) I never asked advice about whether or not I should feed my pigs hay. So I don't know where you get this from.

But you did say you kept them off hay for 5 days, and we were simply worried and wanted you to know that is not a good thing to do.

3) Just because you've had pigs for many years, read a few books about them, read online articles, and post on a forum does not make you wiser than a VETERINARIAN. It really shocks me that you expect me to take these peoples' instructions over that of the vets.

If the vets you are taking advice from are cavy-savvy, then obviously, take their advice. But if they are not exotic vets or cavy savvy, then you'd be surprised how little they would have studied on guinea pigs.

[pinky]

If you're saying giving your guinea pigs hay puts you at risk, you should get them to a guinea pig rescue asap. To deprive them of hay is cruel. Hay is their primary food source and you might not be able to see the damage you're causing but it will impact their teeth and digestive system.

[Merrier]

Here's an idea. The whole time you're depriving your pigs of hay why don't you just skip water? Not food, of course, you can have whatever you want, just no beverages and absolutely NO water.

As for the process of rehoming them, since you have so many vet connections, why don't you network with them to find these animals a suitable home? Or advertise here, on Guinea Pig Zone, GuineaLynx, etc. I'm reasonably sure that as soon as you disclose that you're not giving them hay (for your health) on those sites, you'll easily find someone who can at least foster them until a good home is found, if not adopt them outright. Then you aren't risking your health, you aren't depriving your pets of a vital necessity, and aren't relegating them to a life outdoors where they're likely to be forgotten and overlooked, if they don't become the victim of a predatory animal or person in the neighborhood first. Perfect.

If my doctor recommended I didn't drink liquids for a while for a certain medical reason, which now that I think about it, it has happened. I'd listen to him. If my vet says its ok to keep hay from pigs for a couple of weeks I'm gonna do the same thing.

And I said re homing them might become an option, I'm not trying to get rid of them so why would I post ads right now?

Anywho, my piggies are already eating some kind of hay, I changed it to Orchard grass. NOTHING happened to them from not giving them hay for 2 weeks. They are alive, happy, running, eating, sleeping, popcorning, pooping, peeing, they didn't grow shark teeth from not chewing on hay or get digestive problems . So I guess my vet was RIGHT, they'd be okay.