I am building an outdoor guinea pig hutch.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

We don't advocate outdoor housing here period. Just because you are housing them outdoors does not make it okay. Frozen water bottles are not a sufficient cooling system.

[Fudgenrolo]

We do have cats though. Lots of cats. No matter what I do to keep them off my back garden they come back again and again......it really annoys me but they do!

Plus there are humans - nasty humans. A few years ago a friend of mine had her pair of guinea pigs including their cage stolen from right outside their back door. They never heard about what happened to them. It wasn't a particularly rough area either. (Does this class as evidence?)

Oh and adders are in fact getting more common. Someone recently posted on a different forum I go on about her concern for her new puppy because she had seen an adder on her back garden and knew that they were very common in her area.

Regardless of anything anyone says if you want to keep guinea pigs outside you will justify it every which way so I guess we're wasting our energy typing. Reasonable people who are willing to change have the facts throughout the thread to consider and there is certainly plenty of convincing information on here to make you think. If you read all this and stubbornly go on believing you are right in your decision to keep your 'pigs outside then I guess nothing will convince you otherwise.

The weather last week here in good old England has been horrible. I had a job even getting my washing dry outside as there have been frequent showers, strong winds, cold weather and even thunder and lightning. If you're happy for your 'pigs to be out in all that *plus* you're happy to sit out there in it with them then what can I say? Personally; sat in my pet room cleaning out my current animals in the dry, cosy house watching the torrential rain pouring down the street outside like a river I couldn't see any advantage whatsover in having any of my animals outside.

[Wodentoad]

An excellent list of snakes, native and non-native to England can be found here. The problem with using local names means that they may not be familiar to someone else. Luckily this site provides scientific names and pretty pictures of the scaled fiends.

There may not be snakes in Ireland, but there certainly are in England.

Enjoy... I know my phobia and I did.

[DalesLass]

The problem with using local names means that they may not be familiar to someone else.

Precisely. Europe is a large continent with very varied climate and fauna. We do NOT have anything resembling a Grey Rat Snake in UK.
We have three species only; viper, grass snake and smooth snake.

[princesspoppy]

There may not be snakes in Ireland, but there certainly are in England.

Only in the zoo. Thank god St.Patrick took them all away.

[Paula]

We have three species only; viper, grass snake and smooth snake.

And by all means, they certainly wouldn't pose any threat to a caged animal living outdoors, now would they?

[littlewheekypig]

All three of those snakes would not think twice about eating a pig if they were big enough or the pigs were small or sick. Even snakes that people consider harmless still eat rodents, weather people realize it or not. I live in western NY and we have many many types of snakes, and even the smallest of garter snake would not even think twice about devouring a mouse. I've caught some outside my house that were at least three feet long. Garter snakes are considered harmless here, they don't even have real teeth.

[Paula]

All three of those snakes would not think twice about eating a pig if they were big enough or the pigs were small or sick.

The pigs wouldn't necessarily have to be small or sick, really. They'd be stuck in a cage with no means of escape, making them very easy prey for snakes or other predators.

Which is why dismissing them as an actual threat because they are not the gray rat snake or an adder is absurd.

On the other hand, there wouldn't be any cause for worry at all over the type of snake that may or may not be present if the were housed indoors, would there?

[DalesLass]

And by all means, they certainly wouldn't pose any threat to a caged animal living outdoors, now would they?

No they wouldn't.

All three of those snakes would not think twice about eating a pig if they were big enough or the pigs were small or sick.

I know absolutely nothing about the snakes of USA. I don't pretend that I do. Perhaps you don't know much about snakes in UK.

There may be reasons for not keeping pigs outdoors in UK but the risk of snakes just isn't one of them.

[vicky2]

Too bad you didn't realize the stray cats and/or dogs with nails and claws.

EDIT: No matter where you live, people will release their pet snakes once they get "too big", like boa constrictors for example. These, CAN swallow your Guinea Pigs whole.

[Paula]

No they wouldn't.

All of these snakes eat small rodents and insects. It may not be likely that they'd eat a guinea pig, but it's certainly possible.

I know absolutely nothing about the snakes of USA. I don't pretend that I do. Perhaps you don't know much about snakes in UK.

I'm not pretending anything. But I don't need to be an ophiologist to know that snakes are carnivorous predators that most certainly could attack and eat a guinea pig if presented the opportunity.

[littlewheekypig]

I wasn't pretending to know about the snakes in the UK even though there are many snakes there that are considered introduced species. They may not be as common and wouldn't be listed as living there because they aren't supposed to. What I do know about snakes I have learned from volunteering for the DEC and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which I am currently employed by as a biology intern for going on 4 years,and I am studying to be a field biologist.

[RoarRoarRosie]

I suggest for people who can't (under any circumstance, like myself being a child and my parents not allowing the guineas to be kept inside; and i do argue fair enough points and i still do so don't rave and rant at me) keep their Cavies inside (which is preferable) you can keep them outside but keeping them iside will ensure you're guinea pigs is not exposed to extreme tempretures and both you and you're guinea will get more enjoyment out of interacting with each other at any time of the day + night.

"Cavies are far more tolerant to the cold as they originated from a cold climate in the Andes" says Nikki, secretary of the NSW Cavy Club.

And in the hotter days/seasons it's reccommended that you negotiate to keep them indoors for the period of time? .. (maybe that'll lead to you keeping them indoors all year round ) as it will prevent your cavy from getting heat-stroke.

[pigsforlife]

"Cavies are far more tolerant to the cold as they originated from a cold climate in the Andes" says Nikki, secretary of the NSW Cavy Club.

I have seen many people try to compare domestic guinea pigs to their wild cousins. I have to say, it is an old excuse now. Domestic guinea pigs are NOTHING like their wild cousins. They have totally different diets (hay, veggies, pellets compared to grass and other low lying forages) for one.

If guinea pigs could live outside successfully than this website would not be advocating otherwise. But the fact of the matter is, they will not survive or at least won't live as long with everything stacked against them (weather, predators, lack of attention) outside. Many experienced exotic vets have backed this up - my vet is one of them. Heck, even the "normal" after hours vet knew that guinea pigs should not be kept outside.

Facts;
- There are predators everywhere, so don't bury your head in the sand and pretend there is not
- The weather is uncontrollable and often erratic. I have seen a pig (neighbour who kept her pig outside despite me trying to tell her otherwise) die as a result of heat stroke. The cold in winter can easily cause stress and result in illness.
- Outside they are not part of the family. They do not recieve as much attention which can lead to you missing a potentially fatal illness.

[DalesLass]

there are many snakes there that are considered introduced species. They may not be as common and wouldn't be listed as living there because they aren't supposed to.

In UK we take the potential invasion of non-native species extremely seriously. This is a link to the publication by Natural England (Government Advisory body) about the distribution and threat posed by non-native species.
NECR009 - Horizon scanning for new invasive non-native animal species in England
(Two links at bottom of page; very detailed documents)

Yes, of course it includes Boas, Pythons and any other odd things that people may choose to keep as pets. Understandably then, they are on the ’watch’ list.
To put it in perspective the ‘Rat Snake’ Elaphe spp is in the same category 0.5 Invasion Stage in England as the Capybara. Not so many of those about unless you live within a few yards of the perimeter fence of a zoo.

If we are looking for FACTS regarding threats to outdoor pets lets a) stick to facts b) accept that native species and their population/distribution is not the same in each country.

If you tell people in UK that they should not keep their guinea pigs outdoors because of the threat of snakes they may begin to wonder about the validity of other information on the forum.

[CavyMama]

"Cavies are far more tolerant to the cold as they originated from a cold climate in the Andes" says Nikki, secretary of the NSW Cavy Club.

The climate of the Andes can vary depending on the location. There are actually 3 separate sections that have very different weather. Cavies came from a warm climate, not cold. Guinea pigs today are a far different creature than their ancestors, in climate tolerance and in diet.

Also, the secretary of the NSW Cavy Club can hardly be quoted as an expert. The NSW Cavy Club also advocates breeding and showing of guinea pigs. So they may not exactly be your go-to source for reliable information.

By using climate as your sole argument for keeping them outside, ignores the other dangers. Temperature extremes - even in a relatively mild climate, the temps can fluctuate. Predators - it's not responsible to keep any animal outside in a cage where they have nowhere to hide from an animal that wants to get to them.

[CavyMama]

To put it in perspective the ‘Rat Snake’ Elaphe spp is in the same category 0.5 Invasion Stage in England as the Capybara. Not so many of those about unless you live within a few yards of the perimeter fence of a zoo.

If we are looking for FACTS regarding threats to outdoor pets lets a) stick to facts b) accept that native species and their population/distribution is not the same in each country.

If you tell people in UK that they should not keep their guinea pigs outdoors because of the threat of snakes they may begin to wonder about the validity of other information on the forum.

I don't understand this. Are you saying that just because there aren't as many of them around, they don't pose a threat to an outdoor-caged animal? That because there aren't as many, they take a look at a caged guinea pig and think, "Hmmm I would instinctually, want to attack that vulnerable animal because it would be yummy and easy prey but the official word is that there aren't that many of me so...I'll pass on the snack"

I understand that you mean that because of the lower populations of these snakes, the chances of one coming upon a guinea pig is slight but that does not make the danger of the situation if it DOES happen, any less.

Also, I'm pretty sure that telling people in the UK about the dangers of snakes to outdoor guinea pigs, will not invalidate their confidence of the information on this forum. I think you are underestimating the intelligence of the UK members on this forum.

[Wodentoad]

Okay, time for me to raise my hand to draw fire. I am the one who mentioned snakes because I have a phobia of them. I also live in an area where they are a concern. If you're going to start yelling at people for mentioning the dangers, at least blame the person who put out the information. The Grey Rat Snake mentioned was a MISTAKE, which I freely admit (this is the second time) while researching the Smooth Snake, which you will find looks similar and has a similar diet. in other words, one man's Smooth Snake is another man's Grey Rat Snake. This is why we have scientific naming conventions.

Snakes ARE a valid point in about 85% of the world, including England. In a previous post I linked to several species of snake that live in England, and therefore must also find food. Guinea Pigs outside are a buffet under glass, or whatever you use to "protect" them. The reason I mentioned them at all was because the original poster claimed to live in a Travel Brochure of SoCal and had decided to ignore the fact that there are coyotes, a cunning, intelligent predator, several people mentioned this, and then someone else got up in arms, so I thought I could add in yet another wild predator, assuming that you don't live in Angel City, or Mayberry, or Camelot where there is no crime. (Sorry British friends, I could not think of a better imaginary crime-less city for you.)

And I added that snakes are also a cunning predator, and require very little to find and eat a family pet. I nearly lost an adolescent German Shepard to a Rattler. What eventually killed my beloved family pet? A MAN with antifreeze. Why? God and the Devil only know. So if you want to get angry with me over whether you have Cavy-Eating snakes, get mad at ME.

But before you start throwing stones, I will say this: far from housecats, mice, rats, ticks, mosquitoes, weather, snakes, coyotes, hawks, foxes, dragons, inter-dimentional portals to another land, disease, escape, and such like that: there is one predator, one cunning, intelligent, EVIL predator who has been known to kill or steal guinea pigs for no other purpose than causing harm: Man. Tell me that men by omission or commission are not a danger to ANY outdoor pet. Can you?

Furthermore, and I apologize for the length of this post, taking culpability sometimes requires a verbose response, but for those of you who think DOMESTIC means the same as WILD, do you know that the original "Guinea Pig" from which ours are descended no longer exists? Let me put it to you this way, and nothing said on the intelligence of Guinea pigs, but this is merely a comparison between wild and domestic: Take the Turkey.

The wild turkey is a noble creature that Benjamin Franklin would have put on our State Seal if not our Flag. They are far more intelligent than their domestic cousins, and here is the example. Until they are somewhat older, Domestic Turkeys live sheltered lives. Literally. They don't know about the rain, so when they first feel water on their heads, they can fling themselves about convinced that they are drowning. This can cause them to hurt themselves or other turkeys. They would not survive in the wild, and they are normally kept outside. Wild Guinea pigs no longer exist, but that has nothing to do with their domesticated cousins who, like the domestic turkey, are not able to withstand the natural world without the protections of the ones who care for them. Us. This is why animal welfare groups including shelters and rescues will NOT adopt to people with outside cages. Period. Dot.

You still want to be prissy and perfect because I mis-named a snake? Get a life and a better cause. If you just can't drop it or deal, then you may have more problems than a frank, serious discussion of outdoor predators can help you with.

[VoodooJoint]

Why are people bothering to debate snakes? Honestly, snakes are the least of your worries. I live in a subtropic area where there are loads of snakes both venomous and constrictor, natural and introduced. However, they would be the least of my worries if I was irresponsible enough to house my small animals outdoors.

As I've said before, the predator I would most fear is HUMANS.

Have you got humans living near you? Yes? Then you have the #1 cause of small (owned) animal injury and death in your area.*

How about dogs and cats? Yes? Then you also have predator #2.

What is #3, well that's a toss up between insects and wild rodents (that spread disease, cause infection and injury and can have venom). I dare you to find a livable habitat that doesn't have insects and rodents.

Since it seems to me ALL areas where you are going to have small animals housed outside have these 3 top predators/injurers of small animals living nearby then you have a little canned hunt going on in your outdoor hutch or shed.

Housing outside is irresponsible and neglectful. I don't care how much you rationalize it, what color you paint it, whether or not someone or something is "forcing" you to do it or how luxurious you make the enclosure the fact is that YOU will not live in those same conditions as your animals. THEREFORE you are subjecting them to substandard care.

*(please note that I may have mixed up the exact order of threat they pose but the fact remains that I did list the 3 largest (living) threats)

[Paula]

I suggest for people who can't (under any circumstance, like myself being a child and my parents not allowing the guineas to be kept inside; and i do argue fair enough points and i still do so don't rave and rant at me) keep their Cavies inside (which is preferable) you can keep them outside ...

You do not argue "fair enough" points. You argue points that, to you, justify keeping your guinea pigs outside, when the reality is you're keeping them outside for purely selfish reasons that serve your own convenience rather than their actual needs.

If you can't keep the animals indoors, where they are safe from harm and can be treated as a part of your family, you shouldn't have them at all. Period.

"Cavies are far more tolerant to the cold as they originated from a cold climate in the Andes" says Nikki, secretary of the NSW Cavy Club.

You're seriously hoping that by quoting the secretary of a breeding club you might strengthen your argument and persuade us to your side? Yeah, I'm sure it seems fine to them to keep a guinea pig outdoors. They are, after all, breeding them. What do they care if they're uncomfortable or sick or have to face harsh weather conditions or predators? If they die, they can just breed more to replace them.