[Alusdra]

I think it is hard to relate the animal issues that are seen today to human issues like slavery and racism. Not because animals are different than humans. We are all, of course, animals. But for example with the slavery- it didn't start out as a race issue- Africans were selling each other, after all, as well as being abducted by Europeans. It became a race issue in America as a justification for the continuation of the institution. And that, actually, might be a better way of comparing the AR cause to slavery. Since when we dehumanize, or in the case of animals, try to downplay their ability to feel pain, have needs, emotions, etc- that is a justification for their continued use in just the same way that it was/ is for slaves. The cultural problem of considering African people as being stupid, unable to care for themselves, etc. (interesting factoid I learned the other day- but melanin can increase cognitive capabilities- so scientifically, the darker your skin the smarter you should be) is just a coping mechanism for us, culturally (I think anyway). That parallels nicely with the idea that animals have the same rights as do we, but culturally we have downplayed their equality and their closeness to us in all ways.

Discussing these issues always makes me think- a reason I keep coming back to this site for sure- and I have been ruminating a bit again on my reasons and morals. And I admit, part of my current views has been trying to adjust what I think with what I do like you describe. But part, too, is logic. I really don't see becoming a vegetarian as the solution- speciesism aside.

Vegetarians still eat milk and eggs. In order to have female cows and chickens there are equal numbers of males of both species that are killed to get those producing animals. So why not eat them? Is my question. So say that we perfect the sperm sorting method. Even so eventually the egg laying or milk production level will drop, and those animals will be culled. Again- why not eat them? In addition in order for a dairy cow to be lactating she needs to be bred every year. Some calves will become milk producers- but not near all of them. Same question- the meat is already there, why waste it?

So is the answer veganism? Well ignoring the B12 and any other deficiencies in there - it's not like farming is so eco-friendly either. More so? Maybe, but will farming organic plant matter be able to feed our human population that is exploding, with the climate change that is going on and considering all of the places in the world where having a cow can mean the difference between malnutrition and survival? I doubt it.

So why go to such lengths, it seems to me, if only veganism might accomplish something. It doesn't seem like it will really work all that well when I try to look at it practically. The issues seem bigger, more cultural. And if I started down such a path, though- like you I think my 'perfectionism' as you say, would lead me to slowly starve to death. There is nothing I could consume that would not be harmed. Having animal rights views to me is almost against life. Life means death. Though I don't have any more right to it than any other animal on the planet (or plant, or fungi, or bacteria) neither do I have any less.

And actually- it might be a great idea if we could somehow get Dr. King to go back in time to meet with slave owners. Perhaps the course of history could be changed with the knowledge and ethics that he could bring to that world. Perhaps he could counsel the Africans on different ways to have managed their resources, or slave owners to stop the 'stupid black person' stereotype before it caught on. I don't know enough history to get more in depth than that- but I believe that Dr. King was a brilliant man when it came to all sorts of cultural issues and would not necessarily have as much of an ethical problem as you are implying. No one tries to be evil, after all. Everyone thinks that what they are doing is what is right- even if they are deluding themselves. Granted, I have not been wronged as Africans have been in this country, or animals, either, I suppose- but I would like to think that in such a position I could still have compassion for other lives, even as their actions harm me.


Oh- and to catzeye21138- I wouldn't let you skip the meat, either. Bread and corn is not even close to a healthy meal. Try suggesting more nutritious sides so you have a leg to stand on when you don't eat them meat- like something with beans and various vitamin rich veggies or a nice salad with different lettuces and nuts or something. One they see how tasty and cheap it is, they might keep eating more vegetarian even after you leave the house.