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Originally Posted by stephenlawrence  I'd start out by saying that this thread may be better placed in the "Kitchen". I don't think having a discussion about solutions to improve the state of commercial animal farming is appropriate for the "vegetarian" section. |
Thank you for your thoughtful response to my post and for the fantastic link! I'm sorry if I posted this in the wrong section, but I was aware that some people are vegetarians because of commercial animal farming (your 2 camp) and I was specifically looking for feedback/advice/ideas from people who fall into both of your camps. In fact, I'd say my first scenario was aimed specifically at people in your number 2 camp and my second scenario at people in your number 1 camp. (And I realize people all have differing opinions in any camp--I'm looking for differing opinions.) But, again, if it's inappropriate here, I apologize and hope that a moderator will move it.
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Originally Posted by stephenlawrence It sounds like you are really asking, "what is the viable vegetarian/vegan" solution for the US economy. It is an interesting question. I think you are basing the question on the premise that vegans/vegetarians want everyone to be a vegan/vegetarian, and that is the solution. |
You are partially correct. My first scenario is largely based on economic factors, particularly supply and demand. I'm not claiming any kind of expertise whatsoever, but in my thinking, I don't see a way for a return to purely family farming to ever meet the demand. Which means many people wouldn't support it. So I was curious about what we could do to find a happy medium between mass production of animal products and cruelty. I thought that vegetarians who chose not to eat meat because of industrial farming might have some opinions about that, but the end goal of my question wouldn't be to stabilize the U.S. economy, it would be to deal with the economic issue of supply and demand in a humane way.
My second scenario, as I tried to clarify for biscuit, was more philosophical. However, I'm not assuming all vegetarians and vegans want everyone to also be one--I'm asking if there are vegetarians and vegans who do want this. And if there are, if they have a plan for dealing with the animals if they ever achieved it. I'm not criticizing this ideal at all. I only want to know if in a perfect world for such people, they have planned for a perfect world for domestic livestock, and if they have, what their plan is, because I'm truly honestly just curious and want to learn.
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Originally Posted by stephenlawrence I can see the (2) camp being very successful over time. We are already staring to see the market respond to them in various ways. |
Yes, I see this as an all-around positive thing. I can't see it hurting if meat becomes more of a luxury item. The factory farming industry could shrink and be governed by MUCH stricter human legislation, and the increased price of the meat could make up for the lower profit in quantity. It would also be good for humans to eat meat much more rarely. Even the pre-prepared food industry would find clever ways to market more vegetarian pre-prepared goodies. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't see a way to end factory farming, but I see ways to improve it, and that it makes sense to me even for veg*ans in your 2 camp to support movements for more humane factory farms. I imagine many do, but I think (and just think, mind you) that just as many focus on abolishing the industry altogether. In my opinion, that's a wasted effort for practical reasons (versus ethical ones), so I would love to hear from veg*ans who do have this focus (if I'm right about them existing at all) why they believe it is NOT a wasted effort and how they believe the abolishment of factory farms could work in a practical way.
Granted, a return to family farming would work much like better humane regulations on factory farms (i.e., we would still have meat, but it would be more expensive), but the difference in the supply and cost would be so extreme that I just don't see it as viable or practical to work toward that end.
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Originally Posted by stephenlawrence I'd like to hear more from the (1) group as to what there vision for the future is for the US economy. My guess is that they would like to see the percentage of Americans that are veg*ans grow. This would mean less overall consumption of meat, shrinking the size of the US meat market. |
I'm not as much interested in this question on the basis of economy. It is an interesting question, but I think industries would grow up around vegetarian eating to replace the meat animal industries where we spend so much money now. I am most purely interested in opinions on the other side of the coin in animal welfare. What do we do with these species we created? Even if, as Tophica posted and I agree is likely, the change was gradual and the populations were reduced over time, what is the desirable end result? Yes, it will never happen, but if you're a vegan in the number 1 camp and it's what you WANT to happen, what do you want to happen to the livestock. Do you want wild cows? Endangered cows? Extinct cows? I especially want to know if there's a solution I'm not seeing or comprehending.